C2006/2910, Transcript of Proceedings [2006] AIRCTrans 1047 (8 September 2006)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

---

Workplace Relations Act 1996 15646-1

COMMISSIONER SMITH

C2006/2910

CPSU, THE COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC SECTOR UNION
AND
VICTORIAN WORKCOVER AUTHORITY
s.170LW pre-reform Act - Appl’n for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)
(C2006/2910)

MELBOURNE

10.25AM, FRIDAY, 25 AUGUST 2006

Hearing continuing

PN1

MS D HILL: I appear on behalf of the CPSU. With me today is MR S KELLY.

PN2

MR S JAMESON: I appear on behalf of the VWA with MR G THOMAS.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks. Now there was a prior conference in relation to this matter which was chaired by the Commission. Some discussion took place but it appeared that agreement was not possible and therefore it's probably appropriate, unless there are submissions to the contrary, that I find conciliation to be at an end and we now can programme the matter.

PN4

MS HILL: Commissioner, that's unclear. Apparently a meeting took place with my delegates and the VWA last Tuesday. My people walked out of that meeting thinking that we had a sense of agreement. We get here today to find out that that agreement isn't in place because apparently I didn't call Sean Jameson about it or that's what people are thinking and yet I'm thinking that he's trying to contact me and didn't and we were, you know, going to be endorsing an agreement here this morning.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN6

MS HILL: So I'm ropable that an agreement I understood had been reached last Tuesday is no longer the case. We've just been on to the director of - executive director on the phone outside which, with your indulgence, we took a few minutes to call and we have a meeting this afternoon to try and get back on track what it was we thought we had on Tuesday. So I don't know, I'm in your hands Commissioner as to whether you want to go ahead with the programming on the basis that we walk out of there not friends again.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN8

MS HILL: Or whether we take the punt that we could actually sort this out.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Mr Jameson, are we trembling on the verge of success?

PN10

MR JAMESON: I think there probably is some confusion, Commissioner Smith. There certainly was a meeting on Tuesday about another alleged incident. In discussion there, parties came to a point of not agreeing to resolution today but to have further discussion and the CPSU were certainly asked to contact Ms Hill to ask her to contact myself to discuss further. Certainly that hasn't happened and I've spoken to the CPSU who attended the meeting on Tuesday, members on Wednesday and Thursday and we didn't hear anything. Ms Hill and I have just had a discussion coming in to here and we've put forward what our understanding of the conversation was on Tuesday - - -

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: I take the word discussion being a neutral term.

PN12

MR JAMESON: That's it, neutral term indeed.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN14

MR JAMESON: And so put to Ms Hill what we were expecting to discuss and Ms Hill's clearly advised me that that's not suitable. So I advised Ms Hill that the VWA was happy to continue with submissions today.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well what did you anticipate you'd be making submissions on, Mr Jameson?

PN16

MR JAMESON: The submissions would be around just arrangements for the continuation of this hearing.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: The future programme.

PN18

MR JAMESON: Future programme, absolutely, thanks.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. Well what I might do is this. I might outline what I have in mind for future programming and then I can hear any submissions on that but we won't put it in place until Tuesday night to give the parties an opportunity to see whether or not there can be agreement. The other thing I would indicate that if you both agree that a further conference could assist final resolution, again we can defer putting in place the directions, if you both agree that a further conference may resolve the matter.

PN20

The nature of the directions I had in mind broadly were that by next Wednesday I would ask each party to submit what it believes to be the question that the Commission is going to be asked to address. If agreement can be reached on the question that would be preferred. At the same time I had in mind that the Authority would disclose to CPSU all material upon which it has based its finding in relation to Mr Kelly. I also had in mind that I would then ask for outline of contentions and any witness evidence by around 8 September.

PN21

Now for the purposes of obtaining witness evidence, employees of the Victorian WorkCover Authority who wish to give evidence on behalf of the CPSU would be free to do so and to ensure their protection they would be summonsed if necessary to appear in the proceedings and those who are prepared to give statements may be interviewed by the CPSU so that witness statements could be produced. The Victorian WorkCover Authority would then have until about 20 September to outline its contentions and any witness evidence and to the extent relevant the same process would apply to witnesses for the Victorian WorkCover Authority.

PN22

Now I also had in mind that in the event that the Authority wished to raise a jurisdictional objection in relation to the matter then the timeline would narrow and I would hear argument on that matter about 20 September. Otherwise I'd tentatively put aside the 5th and 6 October. Now that's broadly the contentions that I had in mind in the event that we had to proceed on this matter but I'm content not to issue those and indeed to adjust the timelines if necessary if otherwise agreement can be reached. Any submissions on the - - -

PN23

MS HILL: Commissioner could I just clarify, you'd said that come - by Wednesday we need to, we would need to clarify the question we're asking the Commission. Then the VWA would have to disclose all material to us and then are you saying that the CPSU would have to provide its outline of contentions and witness statements by 8 September?

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: Broadly the outline but it's not fixed in - - -

PN25

MS HILL: Yes it's a little narrow that's all.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Not fixed in cement, Ms Hill.

PN27

MS HILL: Okay. Thank you.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Could be altered.

PN29

MS HILL: Broadly - - -

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: But we may not get to that.

PN31

MS HILL: Yes. Broadly I believe I've got a lot of witnesses.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN33

MS HILL: And as the VWA seem to want to keep broadening out the dispute, we'll broaden out the witness list so I'm just - I'm a little concerned just with the timing of not getting, being able to get it all done.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: All right.

PN35

MS HILL: But I'm happy to work within - - -

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Well put to one side the question of timing, are you content with the broad outline?

PN37

MS HILL: Yes I am.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Jameson?

PN39

MR JAMESON: Thank you Commissioner. The VWA supports the broad outline as well. Thanks.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well why don't the parties let me know by Tuesday whether they've been able to resolve the matter. If I can assist with a conference I'm happy to do that as well. All right I'll hear from the parties on Tuesday. The matter's adjourned.

<ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY 29 AUGUST 2006 [10.35AM]