C2007/2616, Transcript of Proceedings [2007] AIRCTrans 192 (17 April 2007)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 16734-1

COMMISSIONER THATCHER

C2007/2616

AUSTRALIAN LICENCED AIRCRAFT ENGINEERS ASSOCIATION, THE
AND
QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED
s.170LW -prereform Act - Appl’n for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)
(C2007/2616)

SYDNEY

3.04PM, THURSDAY, 29 MARCH 2007

PN1

MS DOUST: I seek leave to appear on behalf of the ALAEA with
MR G NORRIS.

PN2

MR J MCKENZIE: I appear for Qantas Airways Limited with MS S BOURNE.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: No objection to leave being granted, Mr McKenzie?

PN4

MR MCKENZIE: No, Commissioner.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Leave is granted. Ms Doust, usually it's my practice, because of the terms of agreements that when matters of LWs are set down, I usually set them down as a conference for the purposes of conciliation before arbitration. I think I intended to do that this morning but then because of some urgency and the orders you were seeking, I thought in case that wasn't appropriate I would give you the option of setting this down for a hearing. Are we going into conference or what are we doing?

PN6

MS DOUST: I think conference may be appropriate, Commissioner. We saw that you had initially listed it for conference and then for the hearing. We're grateful for that. We obviously brought the application on with considerable haste as we apprehended our member was going to be affected imminently. We've had some very useful discussions with our colleagues from Qantas prior to coming before you, Commissioner, and I think we've reached an agreed position and it may be as easy to reflect that on transcript or discuss it in conference initially, depending upon your preference, Commissioner.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Are you happy with that Mr McKenzie?

PN8

MR MCKENZIE: Yes, I'm happy to go into conference, Commissioner.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Very well. What we'll do is we'll proceed to go into conference. I'll ask the reporter to stay around in case in case we want to put something on the record on whatever we might do. Is that okay? We'll adjourn and go into conference, thank you.

<SHORT ADJOURNMENT [3.07PM]
<RESUMED [3.31PM]

PN10

THE COMMISSIONER: During the brief break we've had a conciliation conference and yes, Ms Doust.

PN11

MS DOUST: Thank you, Commissioner, and thank you for your assistance in conference. I'll read out the agreed position between the parties and obviously ask that anyone correct me if I misstate what the position is. The parties have agreed upon a position which involves consent undertakings, no admissions are made and both parties reserve all of their rights. The agreed position is this:

PN12

(1) Qantas will not, before the report back of this matter on Wednesday, 11 April 2007, issue notice of retrenchment to Vicki Kokkorogiannis.

PN13

(2) Qantas will endeavour, by close of business Monday, 2 April 2007, to provide the ALAEA with all relevant information as to the reason for the termination of employment of Vicki Kokkorogiannis, including the following (a) information about the reasons for the decision made on or about 25 September 2006 to make redundant two flight safety data analysts, (b) information about any flight safety data analysts who expressed an interest in voluntary redundancy and (c) information about the reasons for the decision to select Vicki Kokkorogiannis for redundancy.

PN14

(3) Qantas shall engage in consultation with the ALAEA about (a) measures that might be taken to avert the termination of Vicki Kokkorogiannis's employment, (b) measures that might be taken to find alternative employment for Vicki Kokkorogiannis and (c) measures that might be taken to mitigate the adverse effects on Vicki Kokkorogiannis of the termination of her employment. Just to add to that, Commissioner, I think the parties envisaged that those discussions will happen later next week at a specific time to be agreed.

PN15

(4) The matter will be listed for report back before the Commission at 2 pm on Wednesday, 11 April 2007.

PN16

Thank you, Commissioner. I think that concludes the terms of the agreement between the parties.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Doust. Yes, Mr McKenzie.

PN18

MR MCKENZIE: Thank you, Commissioner. I did indicate I wanted to place a few things on the record in relation to this particular matter. The employee concerned was one of a number of employees that were advised they were to be redundant in September last year, in fact one of 15 employees in risk and assurance area of the business . The company did undertake consultation with the Australian Services Union who was another party to the technical and salaried staff agreement at that time. It believed that it had met its consultation obligations therefore under the agreement.

PN19

However, it appears that the employee was actually a member of the ALAEA, in which case that means that the company is prepared to go through this process of consultation. Having said that, Commissioner, it has been six months since the employee was advised that her position was redundant; secondly, that the company had also assisted the employee with temporary secondment to a position for a six month period. It so happens that now that secondment period is coming to an end that this matter is being brought to the Commission at short notice.

PN20

I might say, Commissioner, that if the employee was a member of the union and the matter has been running for six months, I would have thought the matter would have been brought to the company's attention a bit earlier, but having said that, that's a debate perhaps for another matter,

PN21

Commissioner, what has been read out by Ms Doust will be the process which the company will adhere to and commit to. I did say in conference that the company would reserve its rights in relation to any matters which may or may not be issued after the conference on 11 April but however, is prepared to go through the process as outlined to you this afternoon.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr McKenzie.

PN23

MS DOUST: Just in reply to that, Commissioner, we'll deal with any issue going to the merits and to any reason for delays to the extent that that's relevant at a later date. We wouldn't want to be seen by not responding to what Mr McKenzie said to indicate acquiescence with any suggestion that there's any impropriety or failure or lack of merit in the case. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: I understand that. Thanks, Ms Doust. Hopefully, the individual concerned, knowing that notice had been given to her, even though it might have been through another channel some six months ago, hopefully, she will be in a position to give you all of her ideas that she might have in respect of alternatives to retrenchment so that they can be fully explored in these consultations which are going to take place.

PN25

MS DOUST: We certainly hope there's some meaningful and beneficial consultations, Commissioner.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much then for your cooperation. This matter is adjourned.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [3.37PM]