C2007/2635, Transcript of Proceedings [2007] AIRCTrans 373 (27 July 2007)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

---

Workplace Relations Act 1996 17189-1

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT KAUFMAN

C2007/2635

s.170LW - prereform Act - Appl’n for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)
National Union of Workers
and
Woolworths Ltd
(C2007/2635)

HOBART

10.17AM, TUESDAY, 17 JULY 2007

Continued from 23/4/2007

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: On the last occasion when we were here you asked for a bit more time because you thought you were having some discussions or you were having some discussions that you thought might prove fruitful. Would you like to update me, please?

PN18

MR BOLITHO: Senior Deputy President, we would just like to briefly outline both our positions before you this morning and ask for your guidance on how you feel that it should proceed from here if that suits you, Senior Deputy President.

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Bolitho. Yes, go ahead.

PN20

MR BOLITHO: The union alleges a breach of the Woolworths Limited Hobart Distribution Centre, National Union of Workers Enterprise Agreement 2004 to 2007 at clause 10.7(f). That clause reads as follows:

PN21

An employee's roster may not be changed with the sole intent of avoiding the payment of penalties or loadings or any other benefit.

PN22

In July 2006 management at the Hobart Distribution Centre decided that the start time of the then afternoon shift would be moved back one hour, from 1.30 till 12.30 pm as a start time and as a result the finish time was moved back from 9.30 pm to 8.30 pm. The practical effect of this change was the loss of a 20 per cent loading for the afternoon shift as at clause 10.6(b).

PN23

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You're going just a little fast.

PN24

MR BOLITHO: I'm sorry, sir.

PN25

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 10.6(b). Just let me have a look at that. Yes, thank you.

PN26

MR BOLITHO: Senior Deputy President, rosters change every day in hundreds of workplaces for a whole variety of reasons in a modern, dynamic and vibrant economy. They change to meet the needs of customers. They make changes to accommodate changes in the logistic change and they also make changes in rosters to save costs. You know, all are reasonable, all are legitimate for an employer to change the roster of an employee to meet those ends. So why are we here?

PN27

Because of that clause, 10.7(f):

PN28

An employee's roster may not be changed with the sole intent of avoiding payment of penalties, loadings or other benefits.

PN29

And quite rightly, Senior Deputy President, you'd ask, "Well, how do we know that that was the intent of the company? Well, to put it quite simply - - -

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Not only the intent. It has to be the sole intent.

PN31

MR BOLITHO: Yes, Senior Deputy President. Management simply told us on the 5th of the eighth '06 a meeting was called by management at the Hobart DC to explain the changes and the reasons for those changes as outlined to these gentlemen here and another 11 others. It was quite simply to save the company money. Not because the customer had required a change. Not because the supply chain had changed. Quite simply, they were changed to save money. That in essence outlines our case, Senior Deputy President.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, very well. Ms Jenkinson?

PN33

MS JENKINSON: Thank you, your Honour, and thank you, Mr Bolitho. Mr Bolitho has pretty well outlined the statistics of the case so I won't go over that in too great a detail. To build on one point, yes, Woolworths Logistics Division is a changing division. All of our sites across the network have experienced a number of significant changes in our customer base and the volume of work that we are distributing. Our Hobart DC is certainly no exception to that. Obviously we have an obligation to our customers, our stores to provide a high level of customer service and within the DC we need to make whatever changes, I guess, to the operation that are required to effect that outcome.

PN34

Just one point, or a couple of points, I guess, I'd like to go over, in relation to the meeting held by one of our fellow employees on the Hobart site, we accept that our employees, and certainly these employees - - -

PN35

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that the meeting of 15 August, is it?

PN36

MS JENKINSON: Yes, 5 August.

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 5 August, all right.

PN38

MS JENKINSON: We certainly accept that the employees state that Mr Grainger in this case made the comment that the sole intent of the change was around saving money.

PN39

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And who is Mr Grainger?

PN40

MS JENKINSON: Mr Grainger was the acting DC supervisor at the time while Mr Claridge, the DC manager was in Wodonga. Mr Grainger is one of our leading hands who was performing an acting role at the time and he was holding the meeting on that day. So whilst we dispute that Mr Grainger made that statement, we certainly accept that the employees stand by that and that's fine with us. However we would say quite strongly about the sole intent or in fact that there was no sole intent for the change in those particular rosters, we would say that there are a couple of other reasons that were very pertinent to the change.

PN41

Firstly, productivity reasons. As I mentioned earlier, changes in volume and changes in operation and so forth do require us to be flexible and do require us to make changes at the business unit needs and this certainly came into play with this change.

PN42

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Who made the decision to change the roster?

PN43

MS JENKINSON: Mr Claridge could probably assist me with that?

PN44

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Claridge?

PN45

MR CLARIDGE: Yes, I made the decision purely not on the grounds of reducing cost. With ending up with two fractions of groups within the fork lift rents in the DC and I actually implemented the change to involve everybody in a rotational roster and in doing so reduced the finish time to make it fair and even across the board and try and minimise the impact on all other employees' families and circumstances.

PN46

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. So it was your decision and was cost one of the reasons?

PN47

MR CLARIDGE: Not initially, no. I mean, there is actually a cost reduction in it because the hours and that come back, so it reduced the need to pay a loading rate, but that wasn't the main reason for implementing that change.

PN48

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It was more consequence than a reason, is that what you say?

PN49

MR CLARIDGE: Yes.

PN50

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you.

PN51

MS JENKINSON: And in actual fact it's turned out, it's ended up costing us a lot more in overtime rates. So if cost was the sole intent of making the change, then it backfired on us significantly. I guess in relation to your question, your Honour, what has happened since we last met, we made some further attempts to try and resolve the issue internally with our employees, which is always our number 1 goal. Mr Alan Dobeson, who can't be with us today because he's ill, he flew down from Melbourne to meet with the employees.

PN52

Mr Dobeson is both Mr Claridge and my direct manager and he thought he may be able to add some value to the conversation. He listened to the concerns of our affected employees, and again we put forward the previous offer that we'd made to them. Unfortunately we weren't able to resolve the matter at that point in time and hence we seek your assistance again today to try and resolve this matter today.

PN53

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, very well. Do you want to go into a conciliation conference, is that the best way to proceed today?

PN54

MR BOLITHO: Yes, your Honour.

PN55

MS JENKINSON: Yes, your Honour.

PN56

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Very well. Mr Bolitho, is there anything else you want to put on the record before I adjourn the matter into conference?

PN57

MR BOLITHO: No, sir.

PN58

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Very well. We'll adjourn into conference then, thank you.

<OFF THE RECORD

PN59

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The parties have met me together and separately and various positions have been put and I've just been informed that the matter has been settled. If there's nothing else, we'll now adjourn the Commission.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [11.01AM]