C2008/2301, Transcript of Proceedings [2008] AIRCTrans 185 (30 April 2008)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 18395-1

DEPUTY PRESIDENT HAMILTON

C2008/2301

s.170LW - prereform Act - Appl’n for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)
Australian Nursing Federation
and
Independent Private Hospitals of Australia t/as Malvern Private Hospital, Essendon Private Hospital, Mountain Districts Private Hospital
(C2008/2301)

MELBOURNE

11.30AM, THURSDAY, 17 APRIL 2008

Continued from 9/4/2008

THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED VIA VIDEO CONFERENCE AND RECORDED IN MELBOURNE

PN240

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, since the last time we met in this matter we have had no less than five items of correspondence. There's a letter dated 9 April 2008 Independent Private Hospitals of Australia Pty Ltd to Mrs Jenny King, stating that they have become aware of a number of serious allegations made against Ms King, listing those allegations and standing her down on no pay while they investigate the matter.

PN241

Then there's a letter dated 11 April to myself from Mr Megennis of the ANF requesting an urgent hearing because of that standing down with no pay. Then there's a further letter, an email from Ms Collier raising a number of issues. A response from the ANF, responding or purporting to respond to those issues, and a further response from Ms Collier responding to the response.

PN242

The parties have not adopted my suggestion of themselves providing the other side with correspondence on all occasions. I would just ask them again to do so, should there be any future correspondence sent to myself. So I think you have the floor, Mr Megennis, it's your request.

PN243

MR MEGENNIS: Yes, thank you, your Honour. I would like to take you first to the correspondence dated 9 April 2008 which you have a copy of.

PN244

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I have, thank you.

PN245

MR MEGENNIS: In which I also forwarded a copy to you as well with my correspondence. There are obviously a number of serious allegations made in the context of that correspondence but I would like to draw your immediate attention to the brief paragraph where it states that:

PN246

We advise you -

PN247

That is, Ms King:

PN248

- that you are immediately stood down on no pay whilst the matter is fully investigated by us.

PN249

That is of a serious concern to the ANF, your Honour, because in our strong view that is an unlawful stand-down.

PN250

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. You say there's no power in the award or agreement?

PN251

MR MEGENNIS: Or the Act.

PN252

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Or the contract?

PN253

MR MEGENNIS: Or the contract, that I'm aware of.

PN254

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN255

MR MEGENNIS: On that basis we will be seeking orders in relation to the reinstatement of the status quo in respect of putting Ms King back on full pay in her substantive position as the director of nursing at Essendon Private Hospital.

PN256

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We're back to that status quo issue, are we? Okay. The one that was raised on the last occasion and dealt with by consent.

PN257

MR MEGENNIS: Yes. Your Honour, would you like the ANF to take you to section 690(1) of the Act?

PN258

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I suppose there's two ways we can go on this. We can argue it out or we can endeavour to resolve it in some conciliatory manner. I'm always reluctant to hasten to the first approach if it's not necessary. Would it be perhaps appropriate to try and explore conciliatory options first? I mean, I'm sure you have got a lot to say on merits, but perhaps we will hear from Ms Collier and see if some form of conciliatory approach might achieve the result; would that be all right?

PN259

MR MEGENNIS: Before I make that comment, your Honour, I would like to say one other point.

PN260

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN261

MR MEGENNIS: In relation to some recent developments concerning Ms King's employment.

PN262

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN263

MR MEGENNIS: Arising from the last hearing that we had here last week, I believe.

PN264

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN265

MR MEGENNIS: Where we traversed a number of issues in respect of, initially, Ms Collier providing or giving Ms King some correspondence, giving effect to the requirement to take annual leave.

PN266

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN267

MR MEGENNIS: That was primarily the nature as to why we were at the Commission last week, your Honour.

PN268

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN269

MR MEGENNIS: We did seek the status quo then in terms of her - - -

PN270

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Indeed.

PN271

MR MEGENNIS: The upshot of that hearing, as you may recall, was that there was a proposition put by Ms Collier in respect of a project to be undertaken.

PN272

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Indeed.

PN273

MR MEGENNIS: That at the conclusion of those proceedings the ANF submitted on behalf of Ms King that we would work with the organisation to give effect to that proposal.

PN274

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN275

MR MEGENNIS: Our further understanding was that that project could commence immediately, save to say that Ms King was on sick leave at that particular time and was not due to return to work - - -

PN276

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Till the Wednesday.

PN277

MR MEGENNIS: Yes.

PN278

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Tuesday or Wednesday.

PN279

MR MEGENNIS: I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday. What we have now discovered, your Honour, is that since that date Ms King has received her payslip from her employer; and contained in that payslip is a deduction of four and a half weeks' annual leave, which clearly is contrary to our understanding of the matters that were traversed last week.

PN280

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN281

MR MEGENNIS: That four weeks in fact - - -

PN282

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Was that for her prior service up to that time?

PN283

MR MEGENNIS: She had accrued entitlements - - -

PN284

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, no, I'm sorry. In other words for the period up to the date of that sick leave certificate, she was deemed on annual leave; is that what you are saying?

PN285

MR MEGENNIS: Well, we're not quite sure what the intentions are.

PN286

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. But she wasn't paid as though she was working. She was paid - it was deducted from her annual leave, that four and a half weeks.

PN287

MR MEGENNIS: Yes.

PN288

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So the last four and a half weeks of her pay was in effect annual leave?

PN289

MR MEGENNIS: Yes.

PN290

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood.

PN291

MR MEGENNIS: But I should also add that when the matter first was raised with the ANF in early March, Ms King was stood down on full pay. So for that period until at least we got the correspondence from Ms Collier outlining the requirement to take annual leave, she should have been on ordinary pay.

PN292

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see.

PN293

MR MEGENNIS: So clearly there has been a situation here where Ms King has had four and a half weeks of annual leave deducted from her accrued entitlements, while she should have been on full pay.

PN294

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood. All right.

PN295

MR MEGENNIS: But if I return to your earlier point, your Honour, the ANF is prepared to have some conciliation in relation to this matter.

PN296

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN297

MR MEGENNIS: If it helps to resolve the situation. But clearly that conciliation, from our perspective, requires the reinstatement of Ms King to her former substantive position, or alternatively suitable alternative employment.

PN298

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure. Thank you, for that. Thank you very much. Ms Collier?

PN299

MS COLLIER: Thank you, your Honour, and thank you Barry. Your Honour the letter of 9 April is self-explanatory so I'm happy to go into that if your Honour requires. A little bit of background behind that is that when Ms King was stood down on full pay, an acting state manager was appointed and then eventually a proper state manager was appointed; it was a different person. Both of those people have brought these issues to my attention on the day of the hearing, when I actually got back to the office, and that's why that letter was written on that day.

PN300

In regards to that letter the allegations that have been made have come from an external body. They have come from a government body and they must be investigated, although there are very serious and stringent requirements on us with regards to discussing them. I am told that we are not allowed to discuss them. We are not allowed to even repeat case numbers in any forum and I'm currently seeking advice from the Authority as to how I'm supposed to conduct a disciplinary process that is fair and open, when I'm not allowed to mention anything. So that has created an enormous difficulty for us and we are working through that as we speak.

PN301

The target date for completion of the collection of our information is the end of next week. As I understand it, these processes must be very quick to be fair to all parties involved. Some additional matters since I wrote that letter have arisen - - -

PN302

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, sorry, let me get this straight. So you are supposed to complete an investigation by next week, are you?

PN303

MS COLLIER: Complete our collection of our information, if you like, of our list of issues that we would have the applicant address, and we propose to
have - - -

PN304

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is this investigation being conducted by you or by the Office of Health Services Commissioner?

PN305

MS COLLIER: The Office of Health Services Commission has conducted an investigation already. As a result of their investigation they have made a number of allegations towards the applicant and the organisation. I now have to conduct an investigation and have the applicant answer the allegations, as we were unaware of the entire matter until the day of the hearing.

PN306

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, and the investigation you are conducting is under what instrument or set of obligations? Is it under the Health Commission Act or under the certified agreement or policies, or what is it?

PN307

MS COLLIER: It's under our policies but there really is no industrial instrument that sets out the detail of how these investigations must be conducted, your Honour.

PN308

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Where does the obligation to conduct an investigation arise from?

PN309

MS COLLIER: Well it simply arises from the fact that we have been accused of behaving unlawfully. There seems to have been a serious incident that requires answering and the applicant was in charge of the hospital at the time and in charge of the process and - - -

PN310

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, sorry to interrupt again. You know I have to understand this you see, so I need to ask questions. All right?

PN311

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN312

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that okay?

PN313

MS COLLIER: Yes. Yes.

PN314

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. So this set of allegations has no statutory basis greater than a letter from an anonymous source or something of that sort; is that right?

PN315

MS COLLIER: We have correspondence from - - -

PN316

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I mean, is there a statutory basis to this Health Services Commission; there is, isn't there?

PN317

MS COLLIER: Well there's legislation that regulates the Commission and its operations, yes.

PN318

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN319

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN320

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Does that legislation apply in any way to your investigation? In other words, does it say the Commissioner's allegations must be investigated by an employer, subject to those allegations?

PN321

MS COLLIER: Your Honour, I do apologise, I'm not sure of that.

PN322

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN323

MS COLLIER: What has occurred is that they have simply alerted us to this matter that is now proceeding to litigation because it has not been dealt with properly. They are saying that we have broken the law.

PN324

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Proceeding to litigation; what does that mean? Is your employer charged with an offence of some kind?

PN325

MS COLLIER: It appears so, yes.

PN326

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You think that's the case, do you?

PN327

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN328

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's what you've been advised?

PN329

MS COLLIER: Yes, we believe - well, it's very, very difficult because it - there's all sorts of restrictions on what I'm allowed to say. It's in regard to a patient complaint who has made charges against the hospital. He made the complaint to the Commission. The Commission conducted a full investigation and they have made recommendations, and the recommendation they made to the patient was to pursue litigation; and it's only on that day, on 9 April, that we discovered that this whole event and thing had transpired.

PN330

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN331

MS COLLIER: So we were given the whole file.

PN332

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So the patient has issued a writ against you?

PN333

MS COLLIER: I don't think a writ has been issued. It appears the Commission has recommended to the patient that he pursue his rights legally.

PN334

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, so it's a private action.

PN335

MS COLLIER: They have advised us that they are not happy with our conduct and our responses to their investigation.

PN336

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. But they are not taking any action against you, it's the individual patient is it?

PN337

MS COLLIER: That's correct, your Honour. Yes. In addition to that, your Honour, another very serious matter has come to light in the last 48 hours which again is incredibly serious and we will be providing the applicant with some correspondence about that. Let me say, your Honour, I fully understand that this appears to be, you know, fortuitous timing for us. Anything could be further from the case. It's simply that since the applicant's absence these issues have now been discovered, if you like.

PN338

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Just tell me what the additional issue is, if you could, please?

PN339

MS COLLIER: The additional issue is with regard to an external contractor that was contracted to perform a service last year and the applicant was given several written instructions to not engage that contractor again, and that contractor in fact attended the hospital, performed work, saw private patient information and has charged a fee for a service that was not required.

PN340

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, so there's a breach of directions is there?

PN341

MS COLLIER: A breach of directions and a breach of process.

PN342

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What makes it serious? You said it's very serious; what makes it serious apart from the fact that a direction has been breached?

PN343

MS COLLIER: The other thing that makes it very serious is that a non-authorised contractor and a non-accredited contractor was allowed access to patient records and information.

PN344

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So is that a breach of some sort of Privacy Act?

PN345

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN346

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Or something of that sort.

PN347

MS COLLIER: When you're dealing with a private hospital, and I'm not an expert in these matters, your Honour - - -

PN348

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, no.

PN349

MS COLLIER: I'm at a disadvantage because I'm still collecting the information.

PN350

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN351

MS COLLIER: I mean, I'm trying to do my best to inform the court but I'm still in the process of collecting information about these two matters. However I will be able to provide a commitment that all of the collection of information will be finalised by the end of next week, and Friday is a holiday so I anticipate posting off on Thursday a list of issues that we wish the applicant to respond to.

PN352

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood. One further question, if I could. You have stood Ms King down without pay, okay? I think the question is, having done that lawfully under the Act, under a clause of the certified agreement, or a clause of the contract of employment or something else, what is the legal basis for that decision?

PN353

MS COLLIER: Your Honour, prior to the stand-down the applicant was on annual leave.

PN354

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, well we will come to that as well.

PN355

MS COLLIER: There was dispute about that and then there was an agreement to offer the employment. There is no clause in the agreement or contract that governs stand-down.

PN356

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN357

MS COLLIER: It is simply a matter of custom and practice and process that when very serious charges are made, this is the process and practice that we have always used and were accustomed to. Now after the - - -

PN358

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You see - - -

PN359

MS COLLIER: I beg your pardon?

PN360

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You see, there is a difficult legal issue about it. For example, when I last looked there is no implied term of a contract of employment allowing you to stand-down without pay, for example. Now you say custom and practice; that may be the case, I don’t know, but it is a serious issue that has been much litigated, if I could put it that way.

PN361

MS COLLIER: Yes, I understand that, your Honour, and in the absence of a contract or an agreement that says you can.

PN362

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN363

MS COLLIER: Or indeed it doesn’t say you can't either, and it's been custom and practice in the past in other States.

PN364

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Has it?

PN365

MS COLLIER: In this organisation and other organisations, that where the charges are very, very serious there has been a stand-down without pay.

PN366

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think we can take it that that will be challenged. So we will hear from Mr Megennis in a minute on that.

PN367

MS COLLIER: I understand.

PN368

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I can repeat, it's a much litigated issue and to rely on custom and practice, you know there are certain, if I recall, quite stringent tests under contract law to establish such a custom and practice, when I last looked at the law. So I take it no further than that at the moment. It's a fairly difficult set of tests.

PN369

MS COLLIER: Okay. Thank you, your Honour. Could I please respond to
the - - -

PN370

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that's that issue but I have another issue which is this. Mr Megennis has said that the applicant was put on annual leave for four and a half weeks. I think that preceded the date of your letter, advising her that she was going to be put on annual leave, so if you could clarify that? You see, in your letter of I don't recall what date, were you purporting to retrospectively put her on annual leave, three weeks prior to that; is that the way it was working?

PN371

MS COLLIER: No, your Honour. No. This is the first I've heard of the four and a half weeks annual leave.

PN372

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay.

PN373

MS COLLIER: Our payroll department has not notified me of this.

PN374

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So it might be a mistake.

PN375

MS COLLIER: They have wrongly applied my - yes.

PN376

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So it might be a mistake?

PN377

MS COLLIER: We will correct it.

PN378

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You will correct that, okay.

PN379

MS COLLIER: Yes, we will. Just to clarify, Ms King was stood down on full pay until my letter which notified of the direction to take annual leave. The intention was that the annual leave would apply after that date.

PN380

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: From that date. Understood.

PN381

MS COLLIER: Correct. We will correct that. I don't know that has happened.

PN382

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure. Then if you recall we compromised and agreed to a compromise position?.

PN383

MS COLLIER: Yes, we agreed to provide the alternative employment and the applicant would return to work.

PN384

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood. Okay, so the annual leave issue is to be dealt with in that way.

PN385

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN386

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You will rectify any error made in that respect.

PN387

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN388

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay?

PN389

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN390

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So in summary you say that you are justified in standing down without pay because of alleged custom and practice. You say the annual leave issue was a mistake and will be rectified. Is there anything else you want to respond to what was said?

PN391

MS COLLIER: No, your Honour.

PN392

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think that covers it, doesn't it?

PN393

MS COLLIER: Yes, that does cover it.

PN394

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marvellous. Well, of course there is the other issue which is what we do today, how we go forward.

PN395

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN396

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There are two ways we can deal with that. We can have an interesting argument about custom and practice and I don't know what else, and that will take some time in evidence and submissions, and an argument about the status quo which we didn't have last time. Or we can reach some sort of conciliatory outcome, which hopefully meets the interests of both sides, and achieves a satisfactory result for everybody that way. Do you have an objection to attempting that sort of course of action?

PN397

MS COLLIER: No, in fact I have some suggestions for your Honour and the applicant and their representative. Your Honour, our concern is that we want to bring an end to this process. These allegations and this disciplinary process came at us from left field and really took us by surprise. I understand the other process with regard to the proposed arbitration, and that's continuing on separately and I assume will continue to carry on.

PN398

However this issue that has arisen for us is quite serious and we wish to deal with it very, very quickly. Our concern is that the matter will be delayed and delayed and drag on, and that an investigation for us won't be able to be completed. I would like to agree on some dates and times to have this matter resolved by. Having said that, we fully understand that whatever investigation we conduct will be fully scrutinised by the ANF and probably the Commission. So I guess in that regard you can be assured of our very best intentions and our very cautious process.

PN399

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Okay, there are two issues in front of us. There is the interim position, if I could put it that way, and there's the long term issue which we have got, dates of hearings and submissions for, and that will remain undisturbed I think. So the question is how we deal with the interim issue. We have already resolved one issue which is that of annual leave. Well I hope we have resolved it.

PN400

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN401

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Then comes the issue if she is not on annual leave, what is Ms King going to be put on? I think the issue between you is either full pay or no pay. That's right, isn't it?

PN402

MS COLLIER: That's been our positions.

PN403

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, no, that's the issue between you and the ANF, I think, for the interim.

PN404

MS COLLIER: That's correct. I am happy to - - -

PN405

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The previous position, which was a project, is no longer possible; is that what you are saying? You see if it is possible, that might help. For example, I would just ask you this if I could. There are these allegations that have been made by a patient. They have some sort of official imprimatur, I'm not exactly sure what it amounts to. Some sort of proceedings will take place in a court about them.

PN406

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN407

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You will need to conduct some form of investigation about them, so you tell me. Now while all of that is going on is it possible for Ms King to conduct the investigation and report that we agreed before, sitting in an office away from line management and activity and the sort of issues which seem to overlap with your investigation perhaps; is that possible? You see, that does provide an interim solution which avoids an argument - - -

PN408

MS COLLIER: Your Honour - - -

PN409

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Just let me finish - which avoids an argument about alleged custom and practice allowing you to put her on no pay.

PN410

MS COLLIER: Your Honour, I feel there would probably be some concerns with that. There's an issue of trust and confidence, however we probably - it's not a definite no.

PN411

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN412

MS COLLIER: I mean, it's certainly worth discussing.

PN413

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN414

MS COLLIER: The other issue though is that my real concern, to be totally frank with you, is that the applicant actually does intend to attend.

PN415

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I know you raised that point before. I recall that and I'm sure we will receive a full clarification regarding that in a minute.

PN416

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN417

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So let me get this straight then. As far as you're concerned you are not rejecting out of hand this project, the 6-week project, I think it was. That is a possibility still to be looked at.

PN418

MS COLLIER: It's a possibility to be looked at. Annual leave is the preference.

PN419

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, no, I understand.

PN420

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN421

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So to look at it, do you need to contact someone to clarify the position or would you make a recommendation, or do you make this decision yourself today?

PN422

MS COLLIER: I will be able to make that decision.

PN423

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You'll make that decision? Understood.

PN424

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN425

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN426

MS COLLIER: We can discuss it and we need some discussion, but I would be able to make that decision now today.

PN427

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. How shall we engage in that discussion? Shall we do it on transcript, as you preferred on the last occasion? Or shall we go into private conference, not to in any way pre-judge any of the issues, but simply to make it easier for people to talk? You know, if you want it on transcript I'm not going to necessarily refuse it, but I'm just clarifying because it does make it a bit easier.

PN428

MS COLLIER: Your Honour, I would be happy - - -

PN429

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We will record - - -

PN430

MS COLLIER: - - - to go - sorry.

PN431

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's all right. We will record any outcome of conference on transcript because then it will be agreed.

PN432

MS COLLIER: I understand that, your Honour. I'm happy to go into private conference if that pleases you and the applicant.

PN433

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN434

MS COLLIER: The one comment I would make is that annual leave would be our preferred outcome.

PN435

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood.

PN436

MS COLLIER: If I can facilitate that. But yes, I'm happy to go into conference and talk about this other issue.

PN437

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marvellous. Would that be the appropriate way to go, Mr Megennis, to adjourn into private conference?

PN438

MR MEGENNIS: Yes, your Honour. I just wanted to clarify one point and I would like to make the point very strongly.

PN439

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN440

MR MEGENNIS: ANF does not want to traverse the issues insofar as the allegations that have been made in this correspondence or any other allegation that appears to have come to light.

PN441

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure. No, no, I have no wish to traverse any issues relating to the final issue in this application or to prejudge any issue about the allegations that have been mentioned in the correspondence of 9 April.

PN442

MR MEGENNIS: Thank you, your Honour.

PN443

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, we will adjourn into private conference for a brief while.

PN444

MS COLLIER: How do I do that?

PN445

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Just sit there. We are just going off transcript.

PN446

MS COLLIER: I just sit here?

PN447

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, no problem.

PN448

MS COLLIER: Okay.

<SHORT ADJOURNMENT [11.58AM]
<RESUMED [12.54PM]

PN449

MS COLLIER: When we said a day or two, I would prefer two days just
because - - -

PN450

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure. Yes, okay.

PN451

MS COLLIER: Yes, because we may meet and then need to go away and come back and clarify.

PN452

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood. Yes. Understood.

PN453

MS COLLIER: Thank you.

PN454

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: After extensive discussions we have reach agreement and the agreement is as follows. First of all, Ms King will be on full pay up to today. Secondly, Ms King will go on annual leave for two weeks from today. Thirdly, Ms King will then go on full pay for two days to participate in an investigation into certain allegations mentioned in a letter of 9 April 2008. Fourthly, Ms King will then go on sick leave provided the appropriate medical certificates et cetera are provided. Both sides, Ms Collier and Mr Megennis and Ms King, have advised me that that is agreed.

PN455

Is that the case Ms Collier?

PN456

MS COLLIER: Thank you, your Honour, it is providing that on the two days of full pay that Ms King makes herself available.

PN457

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN458

MS COLLIER: She also answers those other matters with regard to a contractor, that I raised earlier.

PN459

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, yes, that's understood.

PN460

MS COLLIER: Which we will provide detail of.

PN461

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is understood.

PN462

MS COLLIER: Thank you.

PN463

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You will provide detail of everything by Friday?

PN464

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN465

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Understood.

PN466

MS COLLIER: By next Friday.

PN467

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, by Friday week is it?

PN468

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN469

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Friday week, yes.

PN470

MS COLLIER: Yes.

PN471

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Megennis?

PN472

MR MEGENNIS: Thank you, your Honour. That resolves the situation for today.

PN473

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well I thank you both for your participation today and I look with interest to see your submissions in the final matter. So thank you very much. This matter stands adjourned.

<ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY [12.56PM]