C2008/2201, Transcript of Proceedings [2008] AIRCTrans 409 (29 July 2008)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 18795-1

COMMISSIONER LARKIN

C2008/2201

s.170LW - prereform Act - Appl’n for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)
Rail Corporation New South Wales
and
Australian Rail, Tram and Bus Industry Union
(C2008/2201)

SYDNEY

4.37PM, MONDAY, 14 JULY 2008

Continued from 29/5/2008

Hearing continuing

PN168

THE COMMISSIONER: Appearances remain the same, gentlemen?

PN169

MR BARNES: Yes, thank you Commissioner.

PN170

MR LLOYD: Yes, your Honour.

PN171

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Yes?

PN172

MR BARNES: I understand we’re listed here today for the - - -

PN173

THE COMMISSIONER: I’m sorry, Mr Barnes?

PN174

MR BARNES: I understand we’re listed here today, incidental to our having filed an order for production which was made returnable this afternoon.

PN175

THE COMMISSIONER: Because I’ve got the matter listed tomorrow.

PN176

MR BARNES: Yes, thank you, and in that regard my friend and I have just been having some discussions about the categories of documents. He has some documents to produce for certain categories; other documents he says have already been produced at an earlier return and some he says there are none at all. Subject to what my friend has to say, I’m more than happy to have him summarise the position regarding each item onto the record, but I’m in your hands as to how you wish to proceed.

PN177

THE COMMISSIONER: Well gentlemen, I’m in your hands. Mr Lloyd, do you have something you want to put?

PN178

MR LLOYD: RailCorp was served with an order for production of documents or things, dated 9 July 2008. I’m in a position to detail on the record whether there are documents to produce or not.

PN179

THE COMMISSIONER: It’s five paragraphs of the order to produce, Mr Lloyd, correct?

PN180

MR LLOYD: Correct. In relation to paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 there are no documents to produce. In response to paragraph 4, RailCorp has produced documents that are called for in two parts. Firstly, in RailCorp’s own evidence filed in the proceedings and secondly, in response to a previous order for production in these proceedings; so we have no additional documents to produce.

PN181

In response to paragraph 5 we have three bundles of documents to produce. One of the bundles has a heading Safe Working Breaches - History and that
bundle - - -

PN182

THE COMMISSIONER: Excuse me, could I just excuse you for one moment, Mr Lloyd. Yes my apologies, Mr Lloyd. So in regards to?

PN183

MR LLOYD: In response to paragraph 5.

PN184

THE COMMISSIONER: Paragraph 5, yes.

PN185

MR LLOYD: That concerned annexures I and J of a witness statement.

PN186

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN187

MR LLOYD: In relation to annexure I, we have one bundle of documents that is entitled Safe Working Breaches - History, to produce. In response to annexure J, we have two bundles of documents that have a title Crew Off Roster Daily Register - Historical.

PN188

So we are able to produce those documents to the Commission. We don’t have any difficulty with Mr Barnes having access to those documents, including overnight, in an effort not to let this matter disrupt the hearing in any way. But one comment we would make is the three bundles of documents represent the information on the relevant RailCorp computer system. From this source materials RailCorp prepared annexures I and J, which are a summary of the information that’s in these bundles.

PN189

One of the matters dealt with, in going from the source documents to the summaries, was to take individuals’ names out for privacy reasons. So annexures I and J in the evidence do not have individuals’ names, whereas these source documents do. We are concerned to retain the privacy in that regard, because they concern things such as safe working breaches.

PN190

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN191

MR LLOYD: That is going to employees returning to work, say after an absence from work. We don’t have any difficulty with Mr Barnes looking at them but we want to ensure - - -

PN192

THE COMMISSIONER: We will keep them confidential in a sense.

PN193

MR LLOYD: Correct.

PN194

THE COMMISSIONER: If anything is to be tendered, then the applicants need to ensure that names are not associated with it.

PN195

MR LLOYD: Correct.

PN196

THE COMMISSIONER: I’m sure Mr Barnes would comply with your requests and your concerns.

PN197

MR LLOYD: If Mr Barnes needed to get instructions from someone about the documents, we would ask to be consulted before that happens. In other words before individuals’ names are disclosed to other people, we would ask to be consulted before that would happen. We are just concerned with other employees knowing about circumstances of employees on these records.

PN198

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN199

MR BARNES: We have no difficulty with being respectful of my friend’s concerns.

PN200

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN201

MR BARNES: The only people who will look at the documents, subject to further discussions involving Mr Lloyd and myself, would be either myself or another solicitor at White Barnes.

PN202

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN203

MR LLOYD: No difficulty in that regard at all.

PN204

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. All right, so Mr Barnes, you are satisfied that the order for production of documents has been satisfied to the point that it can be satisfied?

PN205

MR BARNES: I’m satisfied, yes certainly, and Mr Lloyd here will have a separate discussion as well as to his understanding. If there are any other concerns I will share them with him.

PN206

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN207

MR BARNES: But at the moment I’ve got no other concerns.

PN208

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. All right then. Yes?

PN209

MR LLOYD: I have these to produce to the Commission but we don’t have any objection to Mr Barnes having possession of them overnight for the hearing tomorrow.

PN210

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, and I think the same accommodation was done on the last occasion with the production of documents as well.

PN211

MR LLOYD: But just to clarify, we produce them to the Commission and we would ask they be provided back to the Commission tomorrow.

PN212

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN213

MR BARNES: Yes, we have no difficulty uplifting them now and delivering them back tomorrow.

PN214

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. All right then, if there’s nothing further I will see you tomorrow morning, unless you settle your matter in the interim.

PN215

Don’t look so shocked, Mr Lloyd, it was only a suggestion.

PN216

MR LLOYD: I’m not appearing tomorrow, Commissioner. Mr Kite is appearing.

PN217

THE COMMISSIONER: My apologies. Yes, all right, if there’s nothing further the Commission stands adjourned.

<ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY 15 JULY 2008 [4.44PM]