C2008/2408, Transcript of Proceedings [2008] AIRCTrans 652 (23 October 2008)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 17786-2

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DRAKE

C2008/2408

S170LW - pre-reform Act - Application for settlement of dispute (certified agreement)

Communications, Electrical, Electronic, Energy, Information, Postal, Plumbing and Allied Services Union of Australia
and
Australia Postal Corporation
(C2008/2408)
Australian Post Enterprise Agreement 2004
(ODN AG2004/7918)[AG837636 Print PR53627]

MELBOURNE

11.41AM, THURSDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2008

PN1

MS J. DOYLE: I appear for the CEPU.

PN2

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Ms Doyle.

PN3

MR R. FURLAN: I appear on behalf of the Australian Postal Corporation, together with Mr Henley.

PN4

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. I didn't give you much notice about calling this matter on but I was here with the same parties and I thought it might be a convenient time to hear where you are up to. I am not inviting you to have a hearing today, I have other things on, but I just wanted an update. So either/or, whichever one of you wants to can tell me what is going on.

PN5

MS DOYLE: Commissioner, and again I'm in your hands as to whether you want to have it on the record or off the record.

PN6

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I prefer on the record, it's really just for you to tell me what's happening?

PN7

MS DOYLE: Well, Senior Deputy President, basically the undue attention being paid to delegates continues. I think perhaps because the matter is before the Commission the pace of attack has perhaps slowed and the level to which the disciplinary matters are going is perhaps more at a formal counselling level than at a warning counselling. Perhaps if I could just update you on the dispute, basically we came to the Commission to seek their assistance because it was quite obvious that the number of delegates were totally out of proportion to the number of normal or other employees being disciplined and the rate of discipline was far greater than what it had been in the past, and how we established that was through a senate estimates committee where we would ask questions about the number of delegates in previous years who have been disciplined. Since that time with the individuals - I think perhaps you will remember there were two drivers actually came and gave evidence at the last - well not evidence but appeared at the last hearing. Wayne Darvell and Mark Roustonos. Wayne Darvell's warning counselling proceeded, you will recall that is because he couldn't do short term over time on a particular day. He gave his keys back and they made it into a capital offence and since then he has had another warning counselling, this time his offence was - he is the health and safety representative and his supervisors gave him envelopes so that he could put his consultation letters into Australia Post managers about the change in the dock review - the dock at Dandenong letter centre is changing from the mail officers loading the trucks to the drivers.

PN8

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think, Ms Doyle, you misunderstood what I wanted to do here. I don't want to be updated on the individual disputes, if I am going to have a hearing about this matter then I will deal with those matters and form a view about whether overall I think there is a justifiable complaint about the process in the way that you have outlined. I just want to know what you have done since then to further the consultation and what is happening in relation to the matter listed before me.

PN9

MS DOYLE: I'm sorry, Senior Deputy President.

PN10

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's all right.

PN11

MS DOYLE: Basically since we proposed - I know Ray Richardson wrote to you with some procedural suggestions for making the disciplinary code a fairer process, we have had no discussions with Australia Post over those.

PN12

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: When were they sent to me?

PN13

MS DOYLE: We were before you on May 27 and so I think it was within a month of that.

PN14

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: These are the proposals sent on 10 June, there is an outline of what is going on and then there was a proposal. Have you responded to those proposals, Mr Furlan?

PN15

MR FURLAN: No, your Honour, Australia Post has not specifically responded.

PN16

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Why not?

PN17

MR FURLAN: In relation to those proposals I would indicate your Honour that there were I suppose an understanding on the part of Australia Post that there would be perhaps a further outline of what expectations or what requirements the Commission had in relation to those particular issues. Australia Post is obviously willing to respond to specific proposals but at this stage we have not done so.

PN18

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well these are proposals, you could respond to those.

PN19

MR FURLAN: We would be able to do so your Honour.

PN20

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well I think you should.

PN21

MR FURLAN: Yes, we will.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And have some discussions about it, see if you can reach some common ground. If not, I will re-list the matter. But it seemed to me there was some correspondence. Now you may disagree with all of it, or you may have a view that some of it has merit, or you may have an alternative, but I think we need to make some progress.

PN23

MR FURLAN: I accept your Honour's proposal that we respond to those. Could I indicate in addition, your Honour, that during private conference on 27 May you did express some - I suppose some views about the time that had been taken to conduct some inquiries and also - - -

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I did, and one of the matters that concerned me, time lines and processes to ensure that there are no unreasonable delays that affect people's standing but I don't need you to deal with those. I don't want you to put them on the record. You know we had a conference about them, I have made some points, you can - - -

PN25

MR FURLAN: Yes, I was only merely going to mention, your Honour, that since then Australia Post has taken a number of actions to ensure that there are an appropriately trained pool of inquiry officers so that the previous periods of time taken to conduct inquiries have reduced significantly since that period. Also, your Honour, I would note that since that time of the proceedings before you on 27 May, there have been a number of disciplinary inquiries in Australia Post, in Victoria specifically. There has been no subsequent general representation about disciplinary processes involved in those matters with one exception which relates specifically to a - I will put it in these terms, a disciplinary inquiry that resulted from a particular industrial situation that arose at the Farnwell Letter Centre. I don't wish to go into further details on that, your Honour, suffice to say that the majority of disciplinary matters have not been the subject of further representation.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, well I think Ms Doyle that what I should do here is ask Australia Post to respond to the proposals, which they haven't done yet, and you could perhaps put those matters about he extra staffing and reduction in time lines to me, and then I might have a telephone conference and discuss what we do with the further resolution of it when I have read your correspondence.

PN27

MR FURLAN: Thank you, your Honour.

PN28

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: My purpose here today was really to give everyone a burst of attention, seeing as I couldn't see anything happening at all. Yes, Ms Doyle.

PN29

MS DOYLE: Senior Deputy President, during the conciliation last time we dealt with Kissic and Wilson and you made quite a firm recommendation about that people couldn't be disciplined for talking about their industrial matters, but that the wearing of their uniforms was inappropriate. If possible I would like that to be recorded in writing somewhere because it's an issue that arises very often, you know, in my association with Australia Post, 25 years, it's been a bit of a running sore.

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I will give consideration to that, it seems like stating the bleeding obvious sometimes to say things like that but I don't think as a general proposition there would be any disagreement about that, would there? So we might be able to make a joint - you might be able to cobble together a joint statement about issues of that kind, but I would rather give Australia Post an opportunity to consider whether they want to do that or not. But I am here again on the 17th but I have got another matter, but I think if you could get back to me by the 17th, Mr Furlan, that would be convenient because I can then consider what I do about re-listing.

PN31

MR FURLAN: I understand, your Honour.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, thank you.

<ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY [11.51AM]