EM2010/2503, Transcript of Proceedings [2011] FWATrans 1139 (11 October 2011)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Fair Work Act 2009 63579-2

VICE PRESIDENT LAWLER

EM2010/2503 EM2011/1

Sch. 6, Item 5 - Application to terminate an enterprise instrument - an award

Telstra Corporation Limited
(EM2010/2503)

Sch. 6, Item 4 - Application to make a modern award to replace an enterprise instrument.

Communications, Electrical, Electronic, Energy, Information, Postal, Plumbing and Allied Services Union of Australia; CPSU, the Community and Public Sector Union; Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia, The; "Automotive, Food, Metals, Engineering, Printing and Kindred Industries Union" known as the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union (AMWU); Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance
and
Telstra Corporation Limited
(EM2011/1)




Melbourne

9.36AM, TUESDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2011

Continued from 30/05/2011

PN202

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good morning. I think the appearances are generally continuing. I think, Ms McCoy, you are here for the ACTU?

PN203

MS E. MCCOY: Yes.

PN204

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you, no further appearance.

PN205

MR P. WHEELAHAN: I appear for Telstra Corporation.

PN206

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, Mr Wheelehan. And Mr White, I note your appearance for the union.

PN207

MR E. WHITE: I appear for the CEPU, the CPSU, and APESMA, if tribunal please.

PN208

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PN209

MS S. HARRINGTON: I appear for the AMWU.

PN210

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Ms Harrington. And Ms Bulat, you’re assisting Mr Wheelahan I take it?

PN211

MS BULAT: Yes.

PN212

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Yes, Mr White. Am I right in saying that the purpose of today is really to set a hearing date, in the practical sense?

PN213

MR WHITE: Yes.

PN214

THE VICE PRESIDENT: There was I suppose the directions could be described as embodying a hope that the parties would reach an agreed statement of facts.

PN215

MR WHITE: That is very closely done. There is only a few matters still outstanding, and that end of next week we should have had that picked up.

PN216

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine. Now, there’s been a fairly – sorry, Mr White. I should let you speak.

PN217

MR WHITE: No, I’ll; let you go. I’m going to talk to you about dates and what the respective parties’ position are, or respective parties’ counsel’s position in respect of that. Subject to one matter which is subject to ongoing discussion, we think the matter would be easily done within two days, and that’s probably being very generous. If the matter - - -

PN218

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Looking at the vast volume of paper on a trolley, it’s had a smell about it of something that had the potential to go for more than two days. Or are you not going to be cross examining Mr Wheelahan?

PN219

MR WHEELAHAN: Correct, your Honour. The agreed facts at the moment, we might cross-examine one of the witnesses on behalf of the union. But by the end of next week we might not even cross examine.

PN220

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good, okay. That’s good, excellent. Two days. Yes, Mr White?

PN221

MR WHITE: Two days, but subject to that agreement. If we’re not able to agree, then two to three days.

PN222

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Could I suggest that we should add a day, reserve an additional day, only because of the logistical difficulties of meeting everybody’s convenience when you’ve got a Full Bench sitting.

PN223

MR WHITE: Yes. We’re happy with that, your Honour.

PN224

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine.

PN225

MR WHITE: Now, as to counsel’s availability, yes alright. Can I hand this to your Honour. It’s in Mr Wheelahan’s handwriting.

PN226

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Can I just say, on the basis that these matters for practical reasons, while they’re wholly contested, are not of pressing urgency and the preparation has taken a fairly leisurely course. And that I should be endeavouring to meet the convenience of counsel. There is no particular reason why there’s any prejudice that’s going to accrue to anybody if the hearing is delayed in order to accommodate the joint available of counsel.

PN227

MR WHITE: No, there’s no urgency.

PN228

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine.

PN229

MR WHITE: So the type written note is in respect of Telstra’s counsel’s available. In terms of my available, the hand written note should say not before October 24th and not the week commencing 12 December.

PN230

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine. Well, I have got some indications from the other members of the Bench as to their availability, but I’m obviously going to have to go back to them because I don’t think I’ve got sufficient detail. But are you content that if just my associate liaises with you and that we settle upon some dates informally in the next day or two, and then I can issue formal directions?

PN231

MR WHITE: Yes.

PN232

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Wheelahan or you might go back to chambers and get a brief this afternoon. It just rules you out further. And so I will get the associate to do a ring around with the available place later today, and issue some formal directions.

PN233

MR WHITE: The only thing in respect of that is that if you’re having to find three dates, it may be a little harder. But we don’t know whether three days will be needed until by the end of next week. That’s the bit of cross-examination material.

PN234

MR WHEELAHAN: Your Honour, if we do agree with the facts, the parties are very comfortable that it be over two days.

PN235

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Two days, okay fine.

PN236

MR WHEELAHAN: If three days are available this year - - -

PN237

THE VICE PRESIDENT: But you’re content I take it, Mr Wheelahan, to accommodate Mr White’s not before 24 October?

PN238

MR WHEELAHAN: Yes, your Honour.

PN239

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay. Well, I’m sure we’ll have no difficulty finding two days that suits everybody between now and late October, early November at the latest.

PN240

MR WHEELAHAN: If your Honour pleases.

PN241

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Is there anything further that needs to be addressed, Mr White?

PN242

MR WHITE: I don’t believe so, your Honour.

PN243

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Wheelahan?

PN244

MR WHEELAHAN: Just not on my behalf, your Honour, but there is just an issue with the ACTU and their submissions that they’ve filed.

PN245

MS MCCOY: Your Honour, we have had some discussions yesterday and also in regard to the last directions hearing. The ACTU’s interest in matters is confined to making general submissions of principal. Essentially we won’t be seeking to add much to our written submissions already filed, and I understand that Telstra is comfortable with that. We may wish to speak to those issue, but we would not be calling any witnesses or cross-examine.

PN246

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine. Okay, that’s noted. I don’t think that requires any particular response or action, does it Mr Wheelahan? I mean, I’m not sure whether you’ve reserved your position in relation to any objection to the ACTU being heard.

PN247

MR WHEELAHAN: Telstra doesn’t object to the intervention of the ACTU so far as its limited to supporting the written submissions that they’ve already filed. If it goes beyond that, then we object to the intervention. But if it’s limited to that - - -

PN248

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, if it goes beyond that, you’ll need to look at how it goes beyond it in order to decide whether or not you press an objection.

PN249

MR WHEELAHAN: Yes.

PN250

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay, fine. That’s clear. So that’s all you needed to say, Ms McCoy?

PN251

MS MCCOY: It is, your Honour.

PN252

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Harrington, is there anything you need to add?

PN253

MS HARRINGTON: No, your Honour.

PN254

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Do you have any unavailable dates?

PN255

MS HARRINGTON: No I’m fine, thank you.

PN256

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fine, okay. I’ll make sure that you’re included in the ring around in any event, just on the off chance that some unavailable dates arise between now and if it settles shortly. Furthermore, I think that concludes today’s directions hearing. And as I say, my associate will be in touch with the parties and we’ll set a date and some formal directions for the listing will be issued. Tribunal is adjourned.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.43AM]