EM2013/34, Transcript of Proceedings [2015] FWCTrans 328 (11 June 2015)

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PN1

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. I’ll take the appearances, starting in Melbourne.

PN2

MS HEAP: Appearing on behalf of Civil Air in matters number 34 and 56 of 2013 and on behalf of the United Firefighters’ Union Aviation Branch in those matters, my name is Heap, initial L; also appearing on behalf of Civil Air in matter number 45 of 2013, thank you.

PN3

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Ms Heap.

PN4

MR COLLEY: If the Commission pleases, Colley, initial D, for the Australian Education Union, appearing in matters 2013/61 and 2013/67.

PN5

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Colley.

PN6

MR NICOLADIS: Nicoladis, M, appearing for the Automotive, Food, Metals, Engineering, Printing and Kindred Industries Union and on this occasion for the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union.

PN7

DEPUTY PRESIDENT SMITH: Take the opportunity.

PN8

MS HERRINGTON: If the bench pleases, Herrington, initial S, appearing on behalf of APESNA, and I’m appearing in matters number 34, 35, 52, 54 and 56.

PN9

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Ms Herrington.

PN10

MS GHELLER: Gheller, initial S, also from APESNA, appearing in matter 61 of 2013.

PN11

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Ms Gheller.

PN12

MS NEILL: Neill, initial V, appearing for Medibank in matter number 48 of 2013.

PN13

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Ms Neill. That exhausts Melbourne; if we go to Sydney, please?

PN14

MR BENFELL: If it please the Commission, I appear on behalf of the Community and Public Sector Union in relation to all matters except for the application in relation to the Christmas Island Administration Award matter number 100.

PN15

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Benfell.

PN16

MR SALMON: If the Commission pleases, my name is Salmon, initial A. I appear for SBS in matter number 81, if the Commission pleases.

PN17

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Salmon.

PN18

MS PAUL: If the Commission pleases, Paul, initial B, appearing for CSL in matter number 47.

PN19

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN20

MS McSWINEY: If the Commission pleases, McSwiney, initial S, appearing for the Australian Film, Television and Radio School in matter 40 of 2013.

PN21

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN22

MS BUTLER: If the Commission pleases, Butler, initial J, appearing for the Australian Council in matter number 53 of 2013.

PN23

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN24

MR ASCOT: My name is Ascot, initial W, matter number 64; I appear for the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority.

PN25

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN26

MR RODNEY: If the Commission pleases, my name is Rodney, initial T, and I appear for ANSTO in matter number 54.

PN27

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN28

MS DONALDSON: If the Commission pleases, Donaldson, initial R, for the ABC in matter number 85 of 2013.

PN29

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN30

MR PARKER: If the Commission pleases, Parker, initial M, appearing for Australian Hearing Services, matter number 52.

PN31

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN32

MR JACKA: If the Commission pleases, my name is Adam Jacka, appearing for the Maritime Union of Australia in matter number 16.

PN33

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Jacka. I think that exhausts Sydney. We have on the phone Christmas Island.

PN34

MR THOMSON: If the Commission pleases, my name is Gordon Thomson, representing the Union of Christmas Island Workers in the matter number EM2013/100.

PN35

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, and in the ACT?

PN36

MS CAMPBELL: If the Commission pleases, my name is Campbell, initial L, appearing for the CSIRO in matter number 89 of 2013.

PN37

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN38

MR LOVELL: Good morning, if the Commission pleases, Lovell, initial J, of Ashurst, appearing for Air Services Australia in matters 2013/34 and 56, appearing for the Australian Sports Commission in matter 2013/43, appearing for the Department of Finance in matter 2013/49 and for the agency heads on behalf of the parliamentary departments in matter 2013/66.

PN39

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN40

MR McNULTY: May it please the Commission, McNulty, initial P, of Ashurt Australia appearing for the Australian Bureau of Statistics in respect of matter number 41 and the National Gallery of Australia in respect of application number 46.

PN41

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN42

MS MILLER: If the Commission pleases, Miller, initial J, for the Australian Federal Police, matter number 2013/35.

PN43

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN44

MS WRIGHT: My name is Wright, initial S, appearing for the Australian Government Solicitor in matter number 42 of 2013.

PN45

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN46

MS HUGHES: If the Commission pleases, Hughes, initial J, representing the Australian Federal Police Association in matter number 2013/35.

PN47

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN48

MR HARGADON: My name is Hargadon, initial K, for the matter 100, representing the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development.

PN49

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN50

MR ANASTASI: In matter 45, Anastasi, for the Civil Aviation and Safety Authority.

PN51

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN52

MS ENDERS: If the Commission pleases, surname Enders, initial C, appearing for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority in matter number 39 of 2013.

PN53

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. That exhausts Canberra. I think we’ll go to Brisbane.

PN54

MS McCAULIFFE: If the Commission pleases, McAuliffe, initial H. I appear on behalf of the Commission for Public Employment Northern Territory, matter number 2013/61.

PN55

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN56

MR O’REGAN: Commissioner, O’Regan, initial P, on behalf of the Australian Institute of Marine Science in matter number 44.

PN57

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. Have we missed anybody? Is there anybody in Perth or Adelaide? Okay, thank you. We brought these matters on to ascertain the next steps. First of all, if I can deal with a couple of matters: the Australian Public Service Commission has written to the bench proposing that consideration be given to making an industry award for those interested organisations who want to confer in relation to that. Is the spokesperson here for that letter?

PN58

MR LOVELL: Yes, your Honour: Lovell, initial J, of Ashurst. I’m instructed to appear on behalf of the Public Service Commission.

PN59

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. I should say that where the parties are legally represented permission to appear has been granted for this matter. Thank you, Mr Lovell. So the matter not before us at the moment is EM2013/62, which was the initial application to make modern awards to replace enterprise agreements. But that would be the manner in which this would be executed, Mr Lovell?

PN60

MR LOVELL: Your Honour, the Australian Public Service Commission has an interest, as the agency responsible for workplace relations in the Commonwealth public sector. You’re correct to say that an application has been dealt with in respect of Australian public service employees. The function of the letter that was sent on Monday afternoon was directed at the question of potentially a broader instrument, covering other, non-APS employers operating in the Commonwealth public sector.

PN61

There is no application in respect of such an instrument currently before the Commission and the Australian Public Service Commission, whilst it has an interest in such an instrument, would not have standing to make an application for such an instrument to be made.

PN62

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, I understand that but you would like to facilitate discussions amongst organisations and then come back to us; is that the approach?

PN63

MR LOVELL: That’s correct, your Honour.

PN64

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Apart from the correspondence we’ve received, has this been foreshadowed at this point?

PN65

MR LOVELL: It has, your Honour. There have been, about this time last year, fairly extensive discussions between the parties to the Australian Public Service Award application in relation to the possible rationalisation of the awards operating in the Commonwealth public sector and those were discussions including with the involvement of a single member of the Commission, Commissioner Deegan, at that time. We think that there is fruitful ground for further discussions and a conference between the parties, possibly with the assistance of the Commission, to see if the concept of an industry award operating in the Commonwealth public sector is something in which parties have an interest.

PN66

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. Well, the Commission is attracted to allowing that to happen, and Commissioner Johns will make himself available should the Commission assistance be required in those discussions prior to any arbitration. That would deal, in one sense, with making general directions in relation to these matters. I want to also now turn to some specific other matters that have been brought to our attention by correspondence. We note that in relation to the Civil Air traffic control, that there are discussions on foot. Could I just deal with the spokesperson in relation to Civil Air traffic, thank you?

PN67

So you would like your matters, at this stage, stood over to enable discussions to continue to occur, Ms Heap?

PN68

MS HEAP: Thank you, your Honour. Slightly more than that, I suppose, your Honour; we were looking for and have foreshadowed in the correspondence to you some draft orders that would actually start the programming of matters - processes before the Fair Work Commission. We are at the stage where we have one further meeting between the parties to discuss and resolve differences around the content. We believe there will still be some differences and also assistance required from the Commission in relation to the general approach of how to handle the hearing.

PN69

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Right. So would you like directions made in number one and two of your correspondence?

PN70

MS HEAP: That’s correct, your Honour.

PN71

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, those directions will be made - - -

PN72

MS HEAP: Thank you, your Honour.

PN73

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: - - formally, so that on or after 9 June 2015 the Fair Work Commission will list the application for conciliation conference and that will be delegated to Commissioner Johns to further narrow the areas of difference between the parties and discuss programming future hearings and the matters EM2013/34 and EM2013/56 be dealt with together.

PN74

MS HEAP: Thank you, your Honour.

PN75

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We note the ACT government’s position, that the ACT government is hopeful that it will have an agreed position by mid-November 2015. Does anybody in relation to the ACT government wish to make any statement further on that? All right, we’ll just simply note that for the record the ACT government is hopeful to be in a position to fully consult and have an agreed award by mid-November 2015. In the event that that requires arbitration or further directions, that matter will be brought back before us.

PN76

Given the circumstances of the discussions for the balance of the public sector, are there matters the parties wish to raise in terms of other directions which may be sought today?

PN77

MS NEILL: Yes, your Honour: so with number 48 in regards to the Medibank Private Ltd enterprise award, we wanted to note today that we will be opposing the making of an enterprise award and we’re requesting that we have our matter programmed as soon as possible to be dealt with separately to the Australian Public Service.

PN78

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: All right. Have you had discussions with Mr BENFELL about that?

PN79

MS NEILL: Yes, we have.

PN80

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Have you got an idea of the program you want to put forward in terms of directions, for evidence, et cetera?

PN81

MS NEILL: I don’t have a specific date that I was going to propose but we would be proposing, as soon as able would be appreciated.

PN82

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So I take it then discussions are exhausted? There’s no conciliation in relation to that matter? You want to run the - - -

PN83

MS NEILL: Correct.

PN84

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Mr Benfell?

PN85

MR BENFELL: Thank you, your Honour. I was advised yesterday afternoon about the intent of Medibank Private to seek the matter be listed for arbitration. I would respectfully request that we have some time to confer with Medibank Private about that matter and we may be able to agree on a course of events. But we haven’t had any substantive discussions about this particular application being made today.

PN86

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Mr Benfell, how long would you need to have those discussions?

PN87

MR BENFELL: Two or three weeks.

PN88

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: All right; are you comfortable with three weeks?

PN89

MS NEILL: Yes.

PN90

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: All right. What I will get you to do is to have those discussions and then could you contact my associate when those discussions are concluded and then we’ll work out the further programming of the matter.

PN91

MS NEILL: Yes, your Honour.

PN92

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Any parties in Melbourne wish to raise any matters? Any parties in Sydney wish to raise any matters? Any other - Brisbane? ACT?

PN93

MS WRIGHT: Yes, your Honour: appearing for the Australian Government solicitor in matter 42 of 2013. The Australian Government solicitor would like to have its application adjourned until July, your Honour, with - I understand that the CPSU doesn’t object to this - that a judiciary amendment bill 2015 was introduced into the senate on 26 March this year and is due for mention and debate tomorrow and if that bill is enacted we think that it will mean there will be no utility in having a modern AGS award as AGS will be consolidated into the attorney-general’s department and its employees will be public service act employees, your Honour. But Mr Benfell may have a position.

PN94

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Mr Benfell, do you have something to say about that?

PN95

MR BENFELL: Thank you, your Honour. I have discussed the matter with the representatives of the AGS and we agree with the suggestion they make.

PN96

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: All right, so we’ll wait to see what happens with that legislation.

PN97

MS NEILL: May it please.

PN98

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Any other comments?

PN99

MR THOMSON: Christmas Island, your Honour.

PN100

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes?

PN101

MR THOMSON: The department of infrastructure and regional development in the Union of Christmas Island Workers are working out a timetable for negotiations.

PN102

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: All right, well, again, could you let my chambers know that when you’ve worked out what your timetable is?

PN103

MR THOMSON: Yes, your Honour.

PN104

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. All right, on the basis of - and a transcript made available for all parties the matters will be adjourned for further progress as discussions occur, thank you. We are adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [11.33 AM]

Fair Work Commission Transcripts

EM2013/34, Transcript of Proceedings [2015] FWCTrans 328 (11 June 2015)