Wilson v Australian Copyright Council S151/2002 [2002] HCATrans 468 (23 September 2002)

IN THE HIGH COURT OF AUSTRALIA

Office of the Registry

Sydney No S151 of 2002

B e t w e e n -

PAUL WILSON

Applicant

and

AUSTRALIAN COPYRIGHT COUNCIL

Respondent

Summons

GAUDRON J

(In Chambers)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AT SYDNEY ON MONDAY, 23 SEPTEMBER 2002, AT 10.13 AM

Copyright in the High Court of Australia

MR P. WILSON appeared in person.

HER HONOUR: Yes, I have a certificate here from the Deputy Registrar who certifies that she has been informed by the solicitor for the Australian Copyright Council that it will submit to the orders of the Court made in relation to the summons filed on 29 July 2002. Yes. Now, what do you wish to say in support of that application?

MR WILSON: Your Honour, I have a summons that I took out on the 29^th of 2002, your Honour, and it is not very clear but I tried to rectify the wordings of it and the contents of it, your Honour, but I - - -

HER HONOUR: Yes, could you come to the lectern, please, so it can be transcribed.

MR WILSON: Yes. Thank you. And, your Honour, I attempted to rectify it and I was not allowed to, so I wrote a letter to the Copyright Council informing them of actually the documents that I am applying for, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Yes. Do you have a copy of that letter?

MR WILSON: Yes, your Honour. I have written extensively to them regards certain matters and those matters do involve those two or three - those three requests, your Honour. I need these for my High Court appeal, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, I just do not understand why. I mean, you have the judgment of the Full Federal Court.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: You have a judgment at first instance.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: Now, we do not look at evidence on special leave applications. We deal with legal issues only. Now, I just do not see why you need them.

MR WILSON: Well, your Honour, I will need them for the issues that I will be bringing to the Court. I have put in a supplementary and - - -

HER HONOUR: A supplementary what?

MR WILSON: A supplementary book. I was told that I was able to - when I put in the application book, I could put in a supplementary as well, which I have.

HER HONOUR: Well, I do not see why you need them. I am sorry, I mean, I just do not see why you need them. I do not know what the documents are.

MR WILSON: Well, your Honour, I put it to you that if you do not know what the documents are and - - -

HER HONOUR: But I do not see why you would need them. Ordinarily special leave applications are directed to ascertaining whether there is some question of law which emerges from the judgments which is of sufficient public importance and sufficiently arguable as to warrant the grant of special leave by this Court.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am, and when I go before the Court I will be referring to my supplementary and within it I will need these documents, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, what do you say these documents are?

MR WILSON: There is a request form for the exhibits and I need that to back up my supplementary, your Honour, and there is No 2 - there was a hand-delivered letter to Mr Banki that the Council has repeatedly denied but it could be my fault because I did have the day out by one day but it has been rectified as being 21/9/2000, your Honour, and, your Honour, the Copyright Council sent me a copy of, as it says there, No 3, exhibit A-thirteen, and I am asking them to provide me the - - -

HER HONOUR: Look, none of this is making sense, Mr Wilson. None of it is making sense to me.

MR WILSON: Well, I need those documents, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, you may need them but you do not need them for the special leave application. Now, let us look at the summons you filed. Now, let me read it to you, "An Order for the Federal Court transcripts" of certain dates.

MR WILSON: Yes, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, I cannot make an order with respect to the Federal Court.

MR WILSON: No. Well, can I - could I just say, your Honour - - -

HER HONOUR: I have no - it is not my court. It is another court.

MR WILSON: Yes. No, your Honour, when I filed out this summons here, I put it in the Registry in here, your Honour, and I received the wrong information from them and that is why this summons was put in. I told you that I had tried to rectify it the next day.

HER HONOUR: Okay. Well, are you seeking an order for Federal Court transcripts?

MR WILSON: No, not now. That is what I am saying to you, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: All right. Are you seeking:

An order for the Australian Copyright Council for the provision of any and all documents regarding the accessing of Courts exhibits A-one to seventeen - - -

MR WILSON: That is correct, your Honour.

HER HONOUR:

- - - from 20.03.2001 to 13.08.2001 -

that is your letters to them. You are not seeking the exhibits, are you?

MR WILSON: No, no, no. This is their documents that they have when the exhibits were accessed.

HER HONOUR: No, that still does not make sense to me.

MR WILSON: It is a request for inspection form that I am asking from them, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, I do not know what that is. Is that a Federal Court form or one of - - -

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am. You see, your Honour, I was told by the Registry not to deliver this summons and then I - - -

HER HONOUR: Well, it does not - - -

MR WILSON: - - - made some inquiries and I was told that it had to be delivered and that is when I tried to change the - - -

HER HONOUR: So you are asking solely for a notice to inspect documents, are you?

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: A notice to inspect that you gave - - -

MR WILSON: No, that is from the other side, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: They gave you a notice to inspect?

MR WILSON: No, they inspected the exhibits and that is the form that I need.

HER HONOUR: They inspected the exhibits?

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: When? Well, you do not have a form to inspect exhibits.

MR WILSON: Well, there was a request for inspection form filled out, your Honour. I saw it.

HER HONOUR: Well, that would have been a request to the court.

MR WILSON: Well, the request at the Registry, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Well, the Australian Copyright Council would not have it. That would be in the court, if there were such a document. I have never - I do not know what happens in this Court, but if it was a request to inspect court documents, it would be in the court, not with them.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am, but I am asking it from - because I was told by - - -

HER HONOUR: Asking it from whom?

MR WILSON: I was told by Registrar Tesoriero that Mr Banki, who is from the Australian Copyright Council, your Honour, that he has a copy of the form and he has denied that he has it.

HER HONOUR: Well, I would not have thought he would have. It just would not be standard practice and if he gave the form to the Federal Court, that is where you have to go. It is no use having a copy anyway. Copies are not relied on.

MR WILSON: Well, when you say a copy, it would be an original document from the court to me or from - - -

HER HONOUR: No, no. You were telling me that somebody from the Australian Copyright Council requested - - -

MR WILSON: Or their solicitors.

HER HONOUR: - - - or their solicitors, requested - filed a document called a request to inspect exhibits with the Federal Court.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: Well, then, you have to go to the Federal Court. You cannot - it is not here. It will be the Federal Court. If, by any chance, the Australian Copyright Council has a copy of it, the copy is irrelevant. One would only be concerned with the request made to the court. I am sorry, that is all one could be concerned with.

MR WILSON: Well, your Honour, I say that I need it for - - -

HER HONOUR: Well, it is no use telling me you need it. If it is a court document, it is a court document. If it is not a court document - and you tell me it is - I do not see its relevance. What is the third one:

An Order to produce the hand delivered and receipted letter - - -

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: What is that about?

MR WILSON: Well, your Honour, I wrote a letter to Mr Banki and I do not have a copy of it.

HER HONOUR: Well, you should have kept a copy. You should know better than that. What is the fourth matter about:

An application for photocopy relief.

MR WILSON: Now, that has got nothing to do with it either, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Okay. Well, now, Mr Wilson, this is a waste of your time and my time, this application, is it not? If you write letters to people, they are entitled to keep them. I do not see any relevance to the proceedings. You do not persuade me that it is. Why would it be relevant?

MR WILSON: How do you mean, the letter that is missing?

HER HONOUR: Yes. Why would it be relevant to a special leave application. If you want to swear an affidavit saying you sent a letter and saying what it says, you can do that.

MR WILSON: Is your Honour suggesting - - -

HER HONOUR: I am not suggesting anything, but - - -

MR WILSON: Is your Honour putting it to me that I should be fronting the Federal Court?

HER HONOUR: I am not putting anything to you. I am not putting anything to you. I am saying to you - I am noting at this stage - note for the transcript - one, that the order, order 1, of the handwritten summons is no longer sought; order 4 of the handwritten summons is no longer sought - - -

MR WILSON: I do seek it, your Honour, and that is what I am asking - - -

HER HONOUR: You just told me that you did not seek order 4, an application - - -

MR WILSON: No, No 2.

HER HONOUR: Order 1 I said is no longer sought.

MR WILSON: Sorry, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: Order 4 is no longer sought.

MR WILSON: Yes, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: That leaves orders 2 and 3. Order 2 says:

An Order for the Australian Copyright Council for the provision of any and all documents regarding the accessing of Court exhibits A-one to seventeen from 20.03.2001 to 13.08.2001, being given by the Courts or Minister Ellison solicitors.

You have told me that what you are seeking by that order is the request - the written request which was made on behalf of the Australian Copyright Council to the Federal Court for inspection of exhibits; is that correct?

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: Well, that document, if it exists, will be a court document. It may or may have some relevance. I do not know. But certainly the fact that there is a copy would prove - would be of no significance to this Court. One would only be interested in the original. As to order 3, you say:

An Order to produce the hand delivered and receipted letter from me dated 21.9.2000 that was previously stated as 22.9.2000 and the wrong date.

That you tell me is a letter from you to Mr Banki.

MR WILSON: Yes, ma'am.

HER HONOUR: If that is relevant, it is open to you to file an affidavit saying that you sent the letter and what was in it. You do not need an order for its production and I would refuse to make the orders because they seem to me to have - the orders that you seek have no relevance - could have no relevance, or can be dealt with by affidavit - in the case of the letter to Mr Banki can be dealt with by affidavit.

MR WILSON: So you are suggesting that I - - -

HER HONOUR: I am not suggesting anything. I am just telling you my reasons for dismissing the summons.

MR WILSON: Well, who do I go to? You have told me that I go to the Federal Court and now you have told me I go to the Copyright Council. Do I go to both of them.

HER HONOUR: I did not tell you either such thing. The summons is dismissed. I am not here to give you advice.

MR WILSON: Thank you, your Honour.

HER HONOUR: You can get a copy of the transcript and read it and you will see what I said. Call the next application, please.

AT 10.28 AM THE MATTER WAS CONCLUDED