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C2001/ 1444 , Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 35 (2 January 2002)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 1729

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

DEPUTY PRESIDENT LEARY

C2001/ 1444 

HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY - ACCOMMODATION,
HOTELS, RESORTS AND GAMING AWARD 1998

Application under section 113 of the Act to vary
an Award concerning rates of pay and conditions
of employment

MELBOURNE

9.40 AM, WEDNESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2001

Continued from 17.7.01

THIS HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN MELBOURNE

PN75

MR N. HEALY: I appear on behalf of the applicant with MR D. CASS from the Australian Hotels Association and MR D. JONES from the Jupiters Group.

PN76

THE D.PRESIDENT: Mr Swancott is somewhere in Sydney.

PN77

MR N. SWANCOTT: Yes, your Honour, I appear for the Australian Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union.

PN78

THE D.PRESIDENT: I understand that this morning that we are at the report back stage. We haven't seemed to have got very far with this at all so maybe - who is going to do the report, Mr Healy?

PN79

MR HEALY: I will start, your Honour.

PN80

THE D.PRESIDENT: All right, thank you.

PN81

MR HEALY: Your Honour, thank you for that. Your Honour, I am aware that this is the first time we have appeared before you in this matter. I have no doubt that you are more than aware of the history of the application, but if I could just briefly say that since this application was first filed in March of this year the matter actually has progressed quite well. There have been numerous meetings between the applicant and the union with both parties negotiating in good faith. Many of these meetings have been held in Sydney and at each meeting some progression has been made. We last met in Sydney on Tuesday, 27 November and undertakings were given at that meeting that a document be provided by the applicant outlining exactly what is in agreement and what is currently in dispute.

PN82

THE D.PRESIDENT: I understand there is a large amount of areas of agreement and there are just a few isolated - - -

PN83

MR HEALY: That is correct, your Honour. I do have, luckily, a document I can tender.

PN84

THE D.PRESIDENT: Excellent, thank you.

PN85

MR HEALY: It outlines, your Honour, exactly what is in agreement and what is currently in dispute. I will just wait until you have that before I go on.

PN86

THE D.PRESIDENT: Thank you. I don't know whether there is an exhibit list in this file. There doesn't appear to be.

EXHIBIT #AHA1 DOCUMENT OUTLINING AGREEMENT

PN87

MR HEALY: As is fairly self-explanatory from the document, your Honour, you can see the matters that are in bold text are the matters that currently remain in dispute. I think this is an appropriate time to highlight to the Commission that in the original application the applicant sought to vary the food and beverage levels - food and beverage levels 2 and 3 in relation to I guess appropriate levels of training and food beverage level 2 staff performing mixed functions, if you like, and perhaps functions that the award would require them to pay at level 3.

PN88

My recent instructions, your Honour, for the sake of expedience in this matter, is that the applicant no longer seeks variations to levels 2 and 3 in the food and beverage area, though they are willing to forego this variation in the - as I have stated, in the hope of expediting and progressing the matter further. However, the applicant certainly would request that at the very least the status quo in those areas is kept.

PN89

THE D.PRESIDENT: Right.

PN90

MR HEALY: Your Honour, the applicant and the union will be meeting again and have given undertakings this morning to meet again on Monday, 7 January at 1 o'clock in Sydney. It is certainly hoped at that time that the field can be narrowed once more. I have only actually just highlighted to the union that the applicant is willing to forego the level 2 and 3.

PN91

THE D.PRESIDENT: I see, fine.

PN92

MR HEALY: That being the case I am hoping the union can put this to its branches and, as I said, hopefully the field can be narrowed once again at the meeting on the 7th. We would request, however - we are very obviously very keen to - we certainly are mindful of the fact that we are getting to the business end of the season in relation to this and we are requesting that the matter be kept on the agenda.

PN93

That being the case, whilst we are unaware of your Honour's movements in January we would request that if we can have some documentation filed giving a final position by 10 January, which is a Thursday, we would request that perhaps the Commission could list the matter on the Monday commencing 14 January, where any remaining issues, perhaps we could have the assistance of the Commission at a conciliation at this point.

PN94

THE D.PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN95

MR HEALY: And obviously once we have worked out from there what still remains in dispute obviously we would be requesting any remaining issues to be considered by the Commission.

PN96

THE D.PRESIDENT: Right, that makes sense to me.

PN97

MR HEALY: Thanks, your Honour.

PN98

THE D.PRESIDENT: All right, thank you. Mr Swancott, did you wish to respond?

PN99

MR SWANCOTT: Well, your Honour, I don't disagree with the position that has just been outlined. In fact Mr Healy and I discussed the situation this morning and that basically represents our agreed position. Your Honour will notice that there are a number of issues that are highlighted in AHA1. Some are minor such as on the very first page the question of definition.

PN100

THE D.PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN101

MR SWANCOTT: Others seem to be of more substance. If you go to page 3 you will see that there is a substantial issue about whether in the safety net classification structure provision should be made at various points for a supervisory classification at the top of the scale so to speak, or in the particular one on page 3 the issue is actually whether the table gaming supervisor should be a classification or whether there should be an allowance payable from time to time that people perform the kind of functions that are embraced in that classification.

PN102

But later in other areas there are more substantial issues as to whether positions that are supervisory, as opposed to managerial, should or should not be contained in the award or reflected in the award or provided for in the award. There are also issues that have developed I might say into a disagreement unfortunately about the extent to which provision should be made for security functions in the classification structure, and that is on about the sixth page of the exhibit. And there are some differences in relation to finance staff which differences in my view are probably in the minor category. In other words, they are not all that difficult to overcome.

PN103

So the two issues that seem to me to be of substance that we will be attempting to further narrow on 7 January, are the extent to which casino security staff should be covered in the award and defined, and the issue of the proper recognition of the supervisory grade, various disciplines. Apart from that it is my assessment of where we are at the moment that most of the other issues that are highlighted in the documents we are not very far apart on and we can come to agreement on, or at least I am hopeful of that.

PN104

THE D.PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN105

MR SWANCOTT: So, your Honour, it should be possible for us in that time frame to identify precisely the areas where conciliation might assist the parties.

PN106

THE D.PRESIDENT: So following the meeting on 7 January it would appear that you would then be able to isolate what are the areas of difference that maybe conciliation can assist with. I think that is what you are saying.

PN107

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, your Honour.

PN108

THE D.PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Is there anything else you wanted to put at this stage, Mr Swancott?

PN109

MR SWANCOTT: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN110

THE D.PRESIDENT: Did you want to add anything else?

PN111

MR HEALY: No.

PN112

THE D.PRESIDENT: It is just a report back I guess so that is possibly about as far as we can go this morning. Can I indicate to you that, yes, we can give you a day. It will be closer towards the end of the week than the beginning of the week, on 14 January.

PN113

MR HEALY: That is fine, your Honour.

PN114

THE D.PRESIDENT: And perhaps once you have your meeting on the 7th, if you provide us with whatever documentation comes out of that so that we know what issues that are outstanding that we need to look at and we will make that a conference and at the end of that conference we will then decide how and where we need to go after that. All right, so unless anyone has anything else they wish to put - - -

PN115

MR HEALY: Your Honour, I am just wondering whether we actually named a date, if that is possible at all.

PN116

THE D.PRESIDENT: Can we make it Friday, the 18th.

PN117

MR HEALY: That is fine on my side.

PN118

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, your Honour.

PN119

THE D.PRESIDENT: Yes. No, we are in Perth the week before and I don't know whether we will be picking up some extra work, that is all.

PN120

MR SWANCOTT: Your Honour, I should say thank you for accommodating me today.

PN121

THE D.PRESIDENT: That is fine.

PN122

MR SWANCOTT: And indicate that obviously if a conference is called in January then I will go where the Commission convenes that conference.

PN123

THE D.PRESIDENT: I was going to ask which is the location that is most suitable to everybody? Is there such a place?

PN124

MR HEALY: No.

PN125

MR SWANCOTT: No, there isn't. I mean the problem is that the AHA headquarters is in Canberra, the union's headquarters is in Melbourne and Mr Healy's - in Sydney - and Mr Healy is in Melbourne.

PN126

THE D.PRESIDENT: And were are based in Hobart so Hobart has got a good chance too.

PN127

MR SWANCOTT: Except it is snowing there.

PN128

THE D.PRESIDENT: That is just a vicious rumour that gets perpetrated every so often. It won't be snowing in January we hope. Well, perhaps you can have a discussion between yourselves and I am happy to meet you whichever location suits all of you. Melbourne is possibly the easiest it would seem if Mr Swancott can be available for Melbourne.

PN129

MR SWANCOTT: Well, yes, your Honour, I give that undertaking because to date I think that the parties have accommodated the union more than the other way round.

PN130

THE D.PRESIDENT: All right, well, we will look at Melbourne. You have got nothing else to put, Mr Swancott?

PN131

MR SWANCOTT: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN132

THE D.PRESIDENT: Are you happy with that, Melbourne on the 18th?

PN133

MR HEALY: I am very happy with that, your Honour.

PN134

THE D.PRESIDENT: All right, well, let us look at that date as being a firm date for a conference in Melbourne on the 18th. It will be a conciliation conference to hopefully look at the issues that are outstanding between you and if not resolved through that process we will then decide how and if they can be resolved. Thank you for your attendance this morning. This matter is adjourned until 18 January.

ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, 18 JANUARY 2002 [9.53am]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #AHA1 DOCUMENT OUTLINING AGREEMENT PN87