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DPP v Harvey [2017] VCC 1985 (20 December 2017)

Last Updated: 14 February 2018

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA
Revised

(Not) Restricted

Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE

CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

Kim RICHARD HARVEY

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JUDGE:
HIS HONOUR JUDGE SMALLWOOD
WHERE HELD:
Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:

DATE OF SENTENCE:
20 December 2017
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:
DPP v Harvey
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:

REASONS FOR SENTENCE

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Subject:

Catchwords:

Legislation Cited:

Cases Cited:

Sentence:

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APPEARANCES:
Counsel
Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions
Ms C. Parkes
Office of Public Prosecutions

For the Accused
Ms M. Walker

HIS HONOUR:

  1. Yes, Madam Prosecutor, I see the defence counsel is not here.
  2. MS PARKES: Yes, Your Honour.
  3. HIS HONOUR: There's a lot of people in court, victims including, I'm assuming.
  4. MS PARKES: Yes, Your Honour.
  5. HIS HONOUR: I propose to sentence, I'm not going to wait.
  6. MS PARKES: Certainly.
  7. HIS HONOUR: It was made clear it was 10 o'clock so - - -
  8. MS PARKES: Yes, Your Honour.
  9. HIS HONOUR: What I will do is though I'll make sure that he understands - really the only thing I've got - we'll just explain things a bit more clearly than I might otherwise when I know there's counsel here.
  10. MS PARKES: Yes.
  11. HIS HONOUR: You can be seated, Mr Harvey.
  12. Kim Richard Harvey, you have pleaded guilty to 17 charges of indecent assault upon a male, 3 charges of buggery, 9 charges of indecent assault, 1 charge of sexual penetration with a person aged between 10 and 16 and 3 charges of sexual penetration with a person aged between 16 and 18.
  13. Those crimes carry maximum penalties of 5 years, 15 years, 5 years, 15 years and 3 years respectively. You pleaded guilty - - -

(Short adjournment)

  1. MS WALKER: I'm so sorry, Your Honour, I had it in for 10.30, my deepest apologies.
  2. HIS HONOUR: Yes.
  3. You pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity and are now 63 years of age.

    I sentence you on the basis that you have ultimately, at least, shown appropriate remorse and you must, of course, get the utilitarian benefit of that plea of guilty. A very significant number of victims have been saved the ordeal of trial and there must be allowance made for that.

  4. You do have prior convictions for similar type offending back in 1975, as

    I understand it, when you were involved with the Scouting movement. It is clear from way back then that you knew that what you were doing was unlawful and yet you persisted for something in the order of 15 years.

  5. Firstly, pursuant to s.464ZF of the Crimes Act I make an order that you provide a saliva sample for DNA purposes. That order having been made I must advise you that should you refuse to provide such a sample police may use reasonable force to take it from you and that order is made and handed down.
  6. Next, because of the nature of the offending you will be placed upon the sex offender's register. I must advise you that the reporting conditions on that sex offender's register will be for life. If you could go with the associate please, Ms Walker.
  7. Next, because of the nature of the sentences that I am about to impose, from Charge 3 onwards you are to be sentenced as a serious sexual offender. I am aware that community protection becomes a principal sentencing purpose. That the sentences are to be cumulative unless otherwise ordered and that

    I can give a disproportionate sentence. A disproportionate sentence is not sought and I would not have given it in any event. Insofar as cumulation is concerned, for reasons of totality, there will be a cumulation for each victim but it will, unfortunately in their view I suspect, have to be moderated because of those principles. I will be expressing it in terms of cumulation. Therefore, obviously, anything that is not referred to in such a way is to be concurrent.

  8. The offending took place between 1974 to 1989. During that period of time you were aged between 20 and 35. The victims in the matter that I sentence for, and therefore obviously will be anonymised subsequently, are Victim 1, Victim 2, Victim 3, Victim 4, Victim 5, Victim 6, Victim 7, Victim 8, Victim 9, Victim 10, Victim 11, Victim 12, Victim 13, Victim 14 and Victim 15. I will refer to the offending against each in as brief a terms as I can to make it clear that I am fully aware of the entire of the entire Crown opening and I am just endeavouring to achieve this in a relatively short time frame if I can.
  9. Charges 1-5 relate to Victim 1. He is the older brother of Victim 2. You, in 1975, moved into an address and married. You became acquainted with your wife’s family including Victim 1,Victim 2 and Victim 3. The Victim 1's father was frequently away from home due to work.-.
  10. On occasions between 16 June 1974 and 15 15 June 1976 you attended the home. You told Victim 1 to sit naked in the bath and masturbate himself while you watched. He estimates that occurred on a number of occasions. Some of these are obviously uncharged acts that operate on the Crown opening.

    On other occasions he would get out of the shower and was standing in the bathroom naked when you would suddenly appear and would then make suggestive comments concerning masturbation. At that time you were employed by a family friend, Their family purchased a home and they were married in the early 1970's and you were accepted as part of the family.

  11. Between June 1974 and June 1976 the family went on an extended trip and you were responsible for the management of the business while they were away. You took the victim to Balnarring, to a property in a removal truck. While staying overnight you had conversations with him about sexual matters and suggested to the victim he should touch his own penis. You then suggested to him that he should perform oral sex on himself. He describes you as being "kinky" and "depraved". You told him to undress and get on to his back.

    You then lifted his legs so that he could try to perform oral sex on himself.

    He told you he could not do it and you stopped.

  12. On his 14th birthday, his brother died. After the funeral his parents separated. The victim, his brother, Victim 2 and his mother moved to Dandenong West.

    A few months later the parents reconciled and the father moved into the property. They went away for a weekend at Geelong and you stayed to look after the victim and Victim 2. You were sitting in the lounge room and instructed him to sit on your lap. The victim's penis became erect and you put Vaseline on his penis and told him to masturbate. He did that. You also asked him to use a glass bottle against his penis, which he also did. That gives rise to Charge 1.

  13. You would after that rub talcum powder on the victim and others bodies and genitals. On another occasion during that period of time you were in the living room of your home in Noble Park and you inserted a matchstick into the head of the victim's penis, causing him pain. The victim had no idea why this was going on.
  14. On another occasion you went camping. During the camping trip you put your hand in the victim's sleeping bag and masturbated his penis until he ejaculated, Charge 3.
  15. During that period of time you and your wife moved into a home in Cranbourne. On an occasion after you moved to Cranbourne you were at home with the victim in the lounge room and you sucked the victim's penis, Charge 4. That is a representative charge and that is the first occasion. On another occasion in the lounge room you sucked his penis again and stopped when someone knocked on the door. That is part of Charge 4. You would put your hands down his pants and fondle his penis and you would, on occasion, tell him to masturbate while you watched him. There are other uncharged acts of similar depravity, which I do not need to go into for these purposes.
  16. On an occasion between 16 June 1974 and 15 June 1975 you were with the victim, he was fairly dirty and you told him to have a shower. You got into the shower and you inserted your penis into his anus. The pain was so severe that he passed out and fell on to the shower floor. That gives rise to Charge 5 of buggery. You then masturbated over the top of him.
  17. Charges 6-10 involve Victim 2. He was aged between 13 and 15 at the time of the offending. On one occasion you rubbed talcum powder on his testicles, which gives rise to Charge 6 of indecent assault. That becomes a representative charge because you doing that again and also rubbing toothpaste onto his testicles.
  18. On an occasion between 28 February 1976 and 27 February 1977 this victim was working with you at the Dandenong factory. You waited until all other employees had gone home, showed pornographic magazines to him in an attempt to arouse him. You showed him magazines and taught him how to masturbate on a number of occasions. You gave him Vaseline and told him to masturbate. You grabbed his penis and then sucked his penis until he ejaculated into your mouth. That is Charge 7, indecent assault.
  19. Again, further uncharged acts insofar as he is concerned but on one camping trip the victim was asleep in a tent. During the night he woke lying on his back to find you on top of him penetrating his anus with your penis, another charge of buggery. You were also masturbating his penis whilst you were penetrating him. The following night the victim woke up to find you sucking his penis. That is Charge 9, indecent act. There were other occasions when that occurred and they are uncharged acts. I am simply going to put this in a generalised way.
  20. On another circumstance the victim went into a toilet with magazines in order to masturbate. While he was in the toilet you came in with a matchstick and you inserted it into the head of his penis causing him severe pain. That is Charge 10. Ultimately the matters were referred to police.
  21. Charges 11-13 relate to Victim 3 who was aged between 12 and 15.

    He was working with you during this period of time. On an occasion you, at work, said "Why don't you take your clothes off?" He took off his clothes, exposing his penis. You then rubbed Vaseline on his penis and masturbated him until he ejaculated. That is Charge 11 which is a course of conduct charge. You would also masturbate his penis and your own penis on occasions and he estimated this occurred virtually every weekend. During the same occasions you would also suck his penis until he ejaculated and one of those occasions was, indeed, witnessed by another victim. That gives rise to Charge 2, course of conduct of indecent assault.

  22. On another occasion you and he were naked in the shower at home.

    You soaped and masturbated his penis and he touched your penis. That is a continuation of Charge 11. You turned the victim around, rubbed your penis between his buttocks and then inserted your penis into the victim's anus causing him pain. He managed to stop you and got out of the shower. That is another charge, 13, of buggery.

  23. Charge 14, Victim 4. This occurred in circumstances where you persuaded his mother that he should work for you. He did so. You asked him to stay overnight at your home in Cranbourne. When he was in the shower - he got into his pyjamas and he went into the bedroom, he went to sleep. During the night he woke and saw you come into the room and lean over the bunk opposite him to where another person was sleeping. He then saw you pull up the sheets, put your hands underneath and he heard the other boy moaning and you told him to be quiet. You then walked over to Victim 3's bed. You sat next to the victim and reached up to him. Victim 3 was moaning and saying something and you told Victim 3 to shush. You then pulled out his penis and began to masturbate. Your penis was about one foot away from the victim's head and you ejaculated onto the blanket. That comes in to Charge 12.
  24. You knelt down beside the bed, pulled back the sheets and blanket. You then sucked the victim's penis, he panicked, sat upright and said "What's going on?" You then got up quickly, grabbed the blanket off the bed and left. That is Charge 14 of indecent assault upon a male and it is a little bit difficult to see how it could have occurred in a more brazen circumstance, Mr Harvey. Afterwards you offered cash as thanks for what had happened. You then, insofar as that victim is concerned, told him if he said anything that you knew where he and his family lived and he felt threatened.
  25. As happened a number of times, from what I can gather, in this matter, he told his mother. She accused him of lying and said he was making it up because he did not want to go to work. He tried to raise this again on several more occasions about what had happened to him and again was told he was a liar. It stopped around that time.
  26. Charges 15-18, Victim 5. The victim lived in Cranbourne. He helped you with landscaping and car washing. He was between 14 and 15 years of age. The situation where he was to wash the car you in those circumstances took out pornographic magazines and talked about sex. You asked him if he ever had sex before and he said no. You made him show you his penis and said to him, "I can help you". You then grabbed his penis, pulled his foreskin back causing him pain. You told the victim to follow you to the bathroom where you took out a jar of Vaseline and you rubbed Vaseline on his penis and you then masturbated him.
  27. On another at least seven to eight occasions when he attended your premises to wash the car he was shown pornographic material and masturbated by you in the same way. On some occasions you would give him alcohol. That is the course of conduct charge being 15, indecent assault upon a male.
  28. On another occasion he was in the lounge room, he had been drinking and he passed out. He woke up lying in the hallway to find you on top of him sucking his penis, Charge 16, indecent assault. On another occasion he was at your home, you put Vaseline on his penis and masturbated him as part of Charge 15. You then became frustrated he did not get an erection and you sucked his penis. You stopped only because your wife was due to arrive home. Charge 17, indecent assault upon a male.
  29. There are further uncharged acts in relation to him. The next one, or there is a charge, is he was attending a landscaping job with you. You told him to undo his pants so that you could look at his penis. You pulled his foreskin back and put Vaseline on his penis. You stretched his foreskin back and made him work like that for the rest of the day causing him to suffer large blisters on the head of his penis. That is Charge 18, indecent assault on a male. He also disclosed the offending to his mother and stepfather and they did not believe him.
  30. The next victim, Victim 6, who was aged around 14 at the time of the offending, again, went to your house to wash - was asked by you to wash the car.

    He went to the house, sat on a couch in the lounge room. You gave him pornographic magazines and told him to look at them while you made coffee. You then asked him if he masturbated and acted in a way that gives rise to an uncharged act.

  31. But a week later he returned to your house, you made him lie on the lounge room floor with his pants down, put a condom and Vaseline on his penis and masturbated him until he ejaculated. You said to him, "No, don't do that yet, don't do that yet" and gave him a towel to wipe his penis. Charge 19, indecent assault upon a male. He never went back.
  32. Charge 20, Victim 7, aged between 14 and 15. Between June 1978 and June 1980 attended a squash court to play with other young males from the Cranbourne area. You had discussions with him about asking if he knew how to masturbate and talking in a sexualised way to him. That went on for some time and again there were uncharged acts involved in that.
  33. On one occasion you put your hand into his pants and said "Here, I'll try". This is in regards to masturbating. You pulled his shorts down and exposed his penis. He froze and was in shock. You then masturbated him. He did not know what to do. He tried to tune out and look out the passenger window of the car waiting for you to finish. He did not get an erection so you stopped. You told him he should keep trying at home. That is Charge 20, indecent act and had further conversations with him.
  34. Charges 21-22, Victim 8, aged between 15 and 16. In 1983 you purchased a milk bar, apparently, in Pakenham. A number of young boys worked there from time to time. On an occasion between June 1986 and June 1987 the victim was working there. He went back to your house for drinks with some of the other boys including victims I have not mentioned yet, that is Victim 13, Victim 10 and Victim 9. You provided all of them with alcohol, you played a pornographic video. At bedtime you told them where they would all sleep.
  35. During the night he woke to see you crawling from the bedrooms to the lounge room and around the sofa bed. He reached out and felt a large grain ashtray nearby. He held it to protect himself for fear you were about to sexually assault him. You put your hand underneath his bedcovers and touched him on the groin. He pretended to stir, made a noise and rolled away. You left the lounge room. That is Charge 21.
  36. The next morning he was having a shower when you opened the door and walked into the bathroom. You had toothpaste in your hand and reached around the shower curtain. You then rubbed toothpaste into his testicles. He told you to piss off. That is Charge 22, indecent assault.
  37. Victim 9, obviously the brother of Victim 10 and Victim 11. Again, all worked at your milk bars in Pakenham and Gembrook. On occasions between 1987 and - 1998 they were working the milk bar on the weekend. There was a large Scout jamboree in the nearby park. The victim stayed the night at the milk bar with you in order to assist with the large amount of customers in the area.
  38. He went to sleep in one of your children's bedrooms. During the night he woke to find you in the bedroom kneeling beside the bed. You pulled his pants down to his knees, put Vaseline on his penis and masturbated him. He managed to get you off. That gives rise to Charge 23, indecent assault.
  39. Then charge 24, Victim 10. Again involving alcohol, playing cards and the like and you were trying to grab him by the crotch and lift him off the ground. Again, uncharged acts I will not refer to. On a particular occasion he drank alcohol to excess and went to sleep in the top bunk next to the caravan. During the night he woke up to find you with your hand down his pants masturbating him. You told him, "Don't worry, just go back to sleep". He just laid there. Charge 24, indecent assault.
  40. Charges 25-26, Victim 11, who was aged between 12 and 13 at the time. Again there was sexualised conduct. Charge 25 was a representative charge. He woke one night staying at your premises to find your hand down his pants masturbating him. He was able to get your hand away. You would, again, walk into showers when he was there, told him not to tell other people. The second occasion is briefly identical circumstances.
  41. On another occasion he went to bed in a bunk bedroom shared with your son. During the night he woke to find his pants down and you sucking his penis. Your son woke up and you quickly left the room. Charge 26 of sexual penetration with a person aged between ten or 16.
  42. Charges 27 and 28 relate to Victim 12. You would befriend him and give him lollies and other things to keep him coming back. He was around about the age of 16. He was small for his age and you would have conversations with him about bulking up. You would touch his inner thigh and again uncharged acts I am not going to elaborate upon.
  43. On an occasion you pulled down his pants and masturbated his penis. Just about as he was going to ejaculate you squeezed his penis several times to stop him ejaculating. That is charge 27 of indecent assault. You removed your own clothing and inserted his penis into your mouth. At the same time you masturbated your own penis, which is an uncharged act. The victim was shocked and wanted to get out. He ejaculated, pulled up his pants, told you to take him home, which you did. That is Charge 28 of sexual penetration.
  44. Victim 13, again, uncharged acts and you inveigled your way into his household, as I understand it. You asked if you could touch his penis and were very persistent about it. In any event you did grab his testicles, moved your hand onto his penis and that gives rise to Charge 29 of indecent assault.
  45. Charges 30-32, that is Victim 14 aged between 16 and 17. Again the circumstances, your premises, he fell asleep and woke to find you had removed his pants and was sucking his penis. Charge 30, sex-pen. You then laid down beside him, he rolled away, you then put your finger against his anus. You then stopped and left the room. That is Charge 31 of indecent assault. On another occasion he drank so much that he passed out and woke up to find you kneeling in front of him sucking his penis. That gives rise to another charge, 32, sexual penetration of child between 16 and 18.
  46. Victim 15 is another one of these bizarre circumstances. Between

    7 February 1986 and 6 February 1987 he was at your milk bar with you and some other boys. During the evening he vomited on himself. You told him you would run him a bath so he could clean himself up. You took him to the bathroom. You told him that he did not have a father, he would not know how to clean his penis. You then removed his clothing. You took out a cotton bud, held his penis and inserted the cotton bud into the eye of penis causing him pain.

  47. When you were interviewed you stated you could not recall the allegations or basically denied them. I have got the details of the previous offending from back in 1975 and again the situations of masturbation on boys around about the age of 13 or 14 when you were dealt with, as I have indicated, by the courts at that time.
  48. The offending is extremely concerning. As pointed out in the Crown submissions, it was committed over a lengthy period of time. It was

    pre-planned, predatory, exploitative and committed for your own sexual gratification. It is clear that you would inveigle your way into families and some of them were from dysfunctional family environments and had no father figure. It would appear that you took advantage of that. There was obviously grooming, there was alcohol, there were lollies and various other pressures that were put on these young boys.

  49. I have read all of the victim impact statements a couple of times. In a situation such as this where there are so many victim impact statements I do not propose to quote from them as I might in a situation where there were one or two.
  50. Suffice to say that what you have achieved, Mr Harvey, is that the normal circumstances of such offending exist here over a large scale. Boys questioned their own sexual relationships. They questioned their own sexuality. They had massive self-doubt and all the aspects of lack of self-worth and the like that follow through. They have situations of ongoing depression, relationship difficulties and it is often said that no sexually assaulted child is ever a happy adult. It might not be totally true but it is certainly common enough. Those victim impact statements eloquently describe the havoc that you wrought on these young boys.
  51. The offending is obviously very serious indeed. It calls for the application of general and to a certain extent, specific deterrence, denunciation and appropriate punishment. The only possible sentencing option in these circumstances is one of custody and of very, very significant proportions.
  52. All of this offending realistically occurred where you were in breach of trust.

    Where parents and families had put their faith in you. There is one instance of a threat. There are instances of grooming that went on for a decade and a half. As the Court of Appeal pointed out in the case of Toomey and two other cases and some of these relates specifically to incest but the same scenario existed in terms of sexually offending against children. Justice Vincent, as I recall:

"The situation in this respect can be seen to be similar to many encountered in the courts where there has been the sexual abuse of young persons. Often such victims experiencing unjustified feelings of embarrassment, shame and guilt that have been induced by the behaviour of the perpetrator, will continue to remain so for many years. According and very frequently as in this case, the commission of the offences will not be exposed until long afterwards. Considered in this light it is my opinion that it is apparent that the principle of general deterrence must assume very considerable significance as a sentencing consideration.

Further it is incumbent upon the courts, however long ago the offences were committed, to express the denunciation of the community of such behaviour through the sentences imposed on perpetrators. It must be seen to indicate that that is the society that they represent, fundamental to which is the protection of its children".

  1. Justice Marks in the R & Sposito, years ago:

"A society which fails to protect its children from sexual abuse by adults, particularly by those entrusted with their care, is degenerate".

  1. In Sposito, which was in fact an incest case the same scenario applies, in my view, to breaches of trust of this sort and I quote directly from it.

"The offence of incest is particularly erosive of human relations and casts doubts on the assumption that parents are the natural trustees of the welfare of their children".

  1. It then goes on:

"More importantly in this situation it would be unnecessary to recount the morbid features of incest. The most prominent of which include the exploitation by the stronger will of the adult of the weaker will of a child. The physical and psychological subordination of the child to the perverted indulgences of the adult. The gross breach of trust placed in the offender by the victim and the community and the irreparable, fundamental damage to the victim".

  1. With those sentencing concepts I then look at the matters personal to you in determining the length of the gaol sentence that you must undergo.
  2. Materials were provided on your behalf by Mr Harvey. There is very little that can be said for you. You have no support. Your children have disowned you. Your mother is now going to have live out her years absent of you. Your friends have all disowned you. You get no visits in gaol and the reality is you almost certainly never will. You have no health difficulties which will cause you problems within a gaol. You have had some heart attacks. There is nothing there that could not be treated. You, at your age of 63, run the risk of never being released and I take that into account.
  3. I do not propose to go through your background as a child. At the age of 63 there is not much point in doing that. I do note, with some interest though, in the report that was tendered on your behalf by Mr Candlish that you, yourself, were - and I accept this, sexually abused on a number of occasions as a child including being abused within the Scouting movement. It is a sad tale but true that that sort of conduct often displays itself in later life in offending against other children. You seem reluctant to talk about that with Mr Candlish and you seem to have, this is said in colloquial terms, tossed in the towel insofar as this is all concerned because of the sentence that you face.
  4. You do have a good work record. You had one period of time where you did not but by and large it is a good work record. You have had no offending since the last of this that we are aware of. In terms of your re-offending it is regarded as moderate to high. That can always be a matter of conjecture and this offending did occur a long time ago.
  5. The prospects of the rehabilitation are really up to you. It will be a matter for the Parole Board at some future date. There is not much point in me going further than that.
  6. I have taken into account that report from Mr Candlish in its entirety. There is also a reference from your mother confirming the circumstances of her health. I take into account that you will undergo this sentencing knowing the difficulties and the loneliness that she faces. Not only in her personal circumstance but

    I daresay she will spend the rest of her life worrying about you.

  7. I do not think there is much else I can say in a situation such as this. It is gross offending. I have to take into account the principles of totality. If you were a younger man the sentence I am imposing would be even greater but it must, nevertheless, be a significant sentence indeed.
  8. All right I will go through these. I will do this as slowly as I can, Madam Prosecutor, Ms Walker.
  9. MS PARKES: Yes, Your Honour.
  10. HIS HONOUR: I am 99 per cent certain I am right but I will just do it. I also indicate for the purposes of the transcript I will be expressing this in terms of partial cumulation. It is much easier to read and the authorities can understand it.
  11. Charge 1, six months. Charge 2, 12 months. Charge 3, nine months. Charge 4, 24 months. Charge 5, 48 months. Charge 6, six months. Charge 7, 24 months. Charge 8, 48 months, they are the buggery charges. Charge 9, 24 months. Charge 10, 12 months. Charge 11, nine months. Charge 12, 15 months. Charge 13, 48 months. Charge 14, 24 months. Charge 15, 12 months.
  12. Charge 16, 24 months. Charge 17, 24 months. Charge 18, nine months. Charge 19, nine months. Charge 20, nine months. Charge 21, six months. Charge 22, three months. Charge 23, six months. Charge 24, six months. Charge 25, nine months. Charge 26, 24 months. Charge 27, nine months. Charge 28, 12 months. Charge 29, nine months. Charge 30, 12 months. Charge 31, nine months. Charge 32, 12 months and Charge 33, 12 months.
  13. I direct that:
  14. All other sentences to which I have not given cumulation are to be served concurrently as is the balance of the sentence which has not been accumulated.
  15. On my calculation that gives an effective head sentence of 12 years and four months. I direct, because of his age in particular, that you serve a minimum term of eight and a half years before becoming eligible for parole. I direct that 517 days be reckoned as having been served under this sentence.
  16. Insofar as the ultimate plea of guilty is concerned, so he understands that benefit that has been received by him of that plea of guilty and avoiding the necessity of a trial for all of his victims, I say that but for the pleas of guilty

    I would have sentenced him to be imprisoned for a period of 17 years with a minimum term of 13. Are there any other orders I need to make?

  17. MS PARKES: No, Your Honour.
  18. HIS HONOUR: That's all right. Everyone (indistinct) everybody?
  19. MS PARKES: Yes.
  20. HIS HONOUR: Yes?
  21. MS WALKER: Yes, Your Honour.
  22. HIS HONOUR: All right. Yes, you can remove the prisoner thanks. Yes thanks, ladies.

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