Libesman, Terry --- "Interview with Delia Lowe" [1990] AboriginalLawB 4; (1990) 1(42) Aboriginal Law Bulletin 10

• Interview With Delia Lowe

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Interview with Delia Lowe

by Terry Libesman

Terry Libesman talks with Delia Lowe, co-ordinator of the Jerrinja Local Aboriginal land Council, about her work with the NSW Aboriginal Land Council, the Local Land Council and her involvement in the 'Save Jervis Bay campaign'.

Q Delia, your family has had a long history of involvement in the Aboriginal struggle. How do you see your role as coming from that history?

A My parents, in particular my father, the late Jack Campbell and my mother, Nan Campbell, were always politically active in the community. Back in the 60's they set up their own Tribal Council of Elders. We lived in a former reserve community where you could see all around you that things weren't really all that good. They were trying to put out a message to the general community and to the government in particular, about concerns they held about protecting what little land we had and our sacred sites. This helped me to develop my own awareness and strength. When you can see what is happening to your people it's pretty hard for it not to effect you.

I have had a long involvement in Aboriginal politics. I was one of the people who worked for the Select Committee upon Aborigines in late 1978. I spent 6 to 8 months travelling around to various communities in NSW. We confronted a lot of despair amongst our people. Basic things like not having adequate water, dwellings falling down and problems in getting accommodation through the NSW Housing Commission.

Aboriginal people were concerned about sacred sites and they talked about land rights. I was coming up against years of neglect by the government and the inadequacies of the policies that existed in the various government bureaucracies. The people had a hardened attitude to it. Some would say, "How is this parliamentary Committee going to assist me and my community to get out of this awful situation that we're in ?" They had a right to express these things.

Q What did the Select Committee Report achieve?

A Out of that Select Committees report in 1980 came the NSW Land Rights Act. I was nominated with a number of Aboriginal people from around the state to serve on the interim NSW Aboriginal Land Council. Our job was to inform the people in the communities about the Land Rights Act . In a number of situations there was a lot of confusion. Communities were wondering what the Act was going to do for them. We had to explain a structure which the Government was presenting. There was a lot of pessimism about the limitations of the act. We had to work against this and put up an image of what positive could be achieved through the Act. We had to say it's up to you. It's not going to be all rosy, but you can pick it up and develop it in a way that's beneficial to your community. I think that's what has happened.

I spent 1984 to 1988 working for the NSW Land Council. Those were hard years. We've come through many hurdles. Any new legislative structure has teething problems. We were always aware that we would have to overcome many problems, and that sections of the Act may not be applicable to the day to day workings of the land councils. We've had problems with accountability, with some local land councils. What has to be remembered is that Aboriginal people were given funding under the Act, without any training or guidance on how to utilise the funds. For example, one little town in NW NSW, had no other organisation. It was their first opportunity to set up an organisation, with a wide community involvement and things which they could do. In other parts of the State, Aboriginal people had already set up housing companies, cooperatives, legal services or what ever, and they were fairly advanced politically. Some of the more developed communities which formed land councils had to stop and wait for the other one's to catch up. We all had to face the same sorts of problems together. I think that one of the unique and positive things about the land council structure, is that it pulls us all in together. In the past organisations were scattered. Q In what other ways has the Land Rights Act changed the nature of Aboriginal politics in NSW? A When the areas of former reserve lands were given back to those communities, that was important in itself. This recognition under white mans law that this land was theirs made people feel stronger. To see what you were fighting for, for so long become a reality. The former reserves weren't huge areas, but they had a different meaning for the people.

Q What role does the Local Land Council play within your community ?

A It has a wide role. Local land councils are involved in communicating between all levels of government. Our land council is involved in communicating with the Federal Government about Jervis Bay, heritage protection and land claims that are outside NSW jurisdiction amongst other activities. Our local Land Council lodged a claim in December 1988 over Commonwealth land. We knew that there was no federal land rights legislation which would give effect to that claim, but irrespective of state boundaries our local land council had the right to put up a political statement. Such actions assist in creating an awareness about the need for the Federal Government to put into effect recognition of our rights to claim land. We got the expected response from the Federal Government, ‘Your Local Land Council comes under a NSW Land Rights Act, there is no Commonwealth mechanism to give effect to your claim...’. We made the claim knowing we would be representing a view, an argument and a statement that there must be legislation to give effect to those claims.

There are some very important sacred sites on Commonwealth land, on the North side of Jervis Bay, being Beecroft Peninsula. It is the home of the ancestral spirit Bundula. Our people sat down a long time ago, in one place and implanted the story about him, in rock art. This story has been passed on to us. Bundula is the rain spirit, and he looks after that country, for the people, animals, thetrees, heathland and all those living things. That is a real and very important part of Aboriginal culture. Beecroft Peninsula poses many questions for our community now.

One in particular is that the dreaming site, the heart site at Bundula is becoming faded now, because it's been a long time since our people have been able to relate to their traditional Aboriginal law. That law says that you have to be responsible for those sites; you have to maintain and look after those sites. That type of alienation has been in place for the last 40 to 50 years, and we need to make a decision about what we intend to do about that from a community point of view. I think we will probably decide that we cannot let that responsibility go, because if we do, we are not respecting our own law. We must have ways and means which will enable us to practice that law again. We know that that responsibility is there, and if we don't do anything about it, we are not being who we are. We are going to lose something very important from our identity, and our spiritual beliefs and our whole relationship to our culture and our country. Can we live with that? Of course there is the big problem of who's got control of the land. On Beecroft Peninsula one part of it is State Government controlled and a much larger area is Commonwealth controlled and managed by the navy. However from an Aboriginal point of view all of that land is one, and all of our sites (some may be two hours walking distance from each other) are connected. It is very difficult trying to explain that to non Aboriginal people, they see things in singular. For Aboriginal people all the different sites and the dreamtime stories that relate to those sites are all connected. They are like a tree, all different branches coming out of it.

Q Did you find this singularity of vision a problem when campaigning to save Jervis Bay?

A It has not been all that difficult to get some understanding of our perspective from the general community. However, it has been particularly hard trying to get government departments to make some progression. One really important thing did happen last year on little Beecroft, which is State owned land. There was already a nature reserve set up there. We were able to lobby and get an agreement to have the walking track named after one of our elders. We felt very strongly that one of the walking tracks should be named after Kumi Carpenter, whose English name was David Carpenter. He was one of our elder people that knew the land in such an intimate way, which we've yet to learn about. We were forcing that recognition be given for one of our people where it was appropriate. It's things like this, that instil pride within one's own self and community. They may seem like small things to some people, but in actual fact when you talk in terms of the history it's very important.

Q The 'Save Jervis Bay Campaign' has been very successful. Do you think this success will have repercussions for the wider Aboriginal and environment movements?

A Our struggle is the struggle of every other Aboriginal community, and our struggle is the struggle of many other indigenous people. It can even be the struggle of ordinary Australians, particularly when you look at what is happening to the planet. Environmental damage will be to the detriment of all human kind, and if we don't stop still and take another look at what we've been doing, it's just going to be too late. When I heard the announcement from the Prime Minister that his government is revoking the big fleet which was coming to Jervis Bay, our people were saying what the people have done in this campaign is to give other people hope.

Q How do you attribute the success of the Jervis Bay Campaign?

A I think the important thing is what's at stake. It's what's at stake which makes people really get up and fight hard. It's just instinct, when you are confronted with a huge, overwhelming proposal like this, that you get up and you fight. If you asked one of us back then, do you think you can do it, we would have said I'm not sure. After the announcement was made to relocate to Jervis Bay, I can remember one of our elders, uncle Gordon Wellington making a comment: 'if that thing comes here I'm going to go away, I'm going to go and live up in the mountains.' He would leave his home, his traditional land. That's the sort of thing that makes you feel more convinced about working hard. The fact is that in that particular area, the first white man that came in, Alexander Bering, in the early 1830's, got up on one of our important, sacred mountains Kalingatty and he looked to the south and he said, 'I declare all the land that I can see as mine '. That was the first imposing of alienation for our people, from their land. We saw this naval relocation proposal as another step in that process of continued alienation. It just came along in a different form and in a different shade in that unfortunately ongoing process.

Q How would you like to see Jervis Bay protected and utilised?

A The Jerrinja and Wreck Bay Community Councils have called upon the Australian Government to stop for all time the bombardment of Beecroft Peninsula. Our communities have been told that some of our sites are now too dangerous to visit because we may be blown away by unexploded shells! The campaign has done a lot for the local area in terms of promoting the importance of preserving Aboriginal heritage and preserving the cultural heritage, natural environment and marine ecology for all people. Our community's role, together with the Wreck Bay community, would be to have a say in the National Park and Marine Reserve which we are proposing for Jervis Bay. We propose to play a part as rangers, cultural interpreters, guides as well as in managerial work. I think this is one of the best and most appropriate ways that the land could be used. We would manage it in a similar way to what the people do at Uluru and also the people in Kakadu National Park. We've been saying for quite some time now that there is no reason why there can't be a designation of National Park area, similar to in the NT. There is no reason why it shouldn't happen in NSW.