Indigenous Law Bulletin
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Indigenous Law Bulletin |
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compiled by Samantha Newman
‘If you come from a minority group and you’re going to work in the law you’ve got to find your voice’
In April 2004, I met with Terri Janke and Trisha Adjei. Terri is known to many as one of the most prominent Indigenous intellectual property lawyers in this country. Trisha is a 4th year law student at University of NSW (‘UNSW’). Trisha and Terri met to talk about their respective experiences – one reflects on what she has learnt in her career and the other on what she hopes to learn. The following is a compilation of some of that conversation.
Trisha Adjei (Trisha): Well I’m half Torres Strait and half African but I only found out about my Torres Strait background when I was 16, so it took me quite a while to get used to being Indigenous and I came across quite a lot of problems being stereotyped, being Indigenous and not having identified being Indigenous before. It was quite hard for me but I’m doing well with it now. Meeting with my birth family was an extreme learning experience. I met my birth mother when I was 18, she lives in Cairns, and I went up to Thursday Island when I was 19 for a funeral. It was quite an amazing experience meeting all my cousins and my grandparents.
Terri Janke (Terri): My family is from the Torres Strait and Cape York and I grew up as a little black kid in Cairns, very much with both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. We moved to Canberra when I was 9 because my Dad got a job in Aboriginal Hostels Limited and we knew all the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Canberra, all my parents’ friends. I didn’t get to the Torres Strait until I was 27 because my parents had moved on from there.
Trisha: I actually wanted to study psychology when I started uni. I went to the Aboriginal Education Centre and met one of my relatives who was studying Arts Law. I thought Law might be kind of an interesting area to go into so I changed my mind then and there. I mean, I hated it when I started. I didn’t understand it at all and I found it really hard but as the years went by I found it more interesting and electives make a real difference. I’m also studying sociology, history and politics. I never actually did psychology in the end!
Terri: To tell you the truth, I have a sister who’s really close to me and she moved here and was studying law and it was like, ‘when you’re finished you’re coming here to study law with me.’
I had this idea that I wanted to do something that could make a difference for Aboriginal people. But even though I thought I wanted to do something with Indigenous politics, I felt really helpless. I just didn’t know how I could impact. You had your role models and they just seemed so unbelievable, they were out there fighting for Indigenous rights and getting their law degrees. And I thought ‘yeah that’s great but I can’t do that!’ And I was young too. I was 18 when I started and you think ‘how much does an 18-year-old really know?’
So I left uni and got a job at the Aboriginal Arts Board of the Australia Council and met a lot of Indigenous artists. When I was about 20 I was working as a program officer and doing policy work in the arts when all of a sudden copyright infringements were occurring and Indigenous peoples were writing books and having International conferences and the first cases were coming through. And I thought that’s it, this is what I want to do – copyright and Indigenous art. That’s when I went back to law and was so focused because I knew that was the area for me. It was so interesting working out how these rights could apply for Indigenous people.
After I finished law I got a job working with the National Indigenous Arts Advocacy Association (‘NIAAA’) and I also worked at Phillips Fox as a summer clerk in the Industrial and Intellectual Property section.
After I left NIAAA I went to a small firm, Michael Frankel and Co, who were mainly doing film law. We got a major consultancy on ‘Our Culture Our Future’.[1] At the time the area of Indigenous culture and rights was starting to get a lot of attention and it just took off. I had two children while I was working there and then I thought that I just want to focus and that’s when I set up my own law firm. And that was 4 years ago.
At the moment I’ve just finished a major report for the World Intellectual Property Organisation (‘WIPO’), ‘Minding Cultures’.
Q: Did you experience any discrimination in the firm, being an Indigenous woman?
Terri: I remember once when I went to the District Court, the clerk asked me, ‘are you this person waiting for your case to be heard?’ I mean you try so hard to look important and people still think you’re a defendant! Even today people get amazed that I’m a lawyer. Or they think that you’re not a real lawyer.
Q: Between beginning your degree and your return nearly ten years later did you notice a difference in the amount of Indigenous students that were there?
Terri: Yeah. There were big differences and it helped a lot. The first time around there were about 5 or 6 of us but by the time I got back there seemed to be so many more. And the assistance that the Aboriginal Education Program (‘AEP’) gave us was fantastic. I had tutors to help with support and giving you confidence and two of them are still my very good friends today.
Trisha: Well for me there does seem to be a conservative, right-wing culture in the law school. But you can’t really generalise because you don’t know everyone’s background. Still, you do have to behave in a certain way, and then I go to the centre[2] and just kind of relax! How was it for you?
Terri: I hated it. I sometimes didn’t want to go in there. I mean, like you say, it’s difficult to generalise but it wasn’t the warmest place. I don’t know what it’s like now; this was going on 20 years ago when there was a strong conservatism going through the law. There was a definite focus on money-making and law firms really went off at that time, everyone wanted to work in them. For me, I was always looking for something more, I was driven in a different direction.
People were always a lot more confident than me, I was very shy – didn’t like to talk in class. That was pretty confronting for me because they try and teach the Socratic Method but you have to get used to that – that’s what the law is like. If you come from a minority group and you’re going to work in the law you’ve got to find your voice while you’re there. But it took a while.
The Mabo decision really turned things around for me. Before Mabo, I’d go in there and think ‘am I going to come out indoctrinated by the ideologies of this world?’ Because the law is seen as a tool of that world. And that’s when I got disillusioned. In class you began to feel like ‘I don’t want to sit here and be told those laws that will put me back in my little box’, especially when you’re studying Nabalco and Koowarta – what’s the point? But Mabo, and having a much more visible Indigenous legal program in the course and having the AEP, the ALB[3] and Garth Nettheim’s course[4] gave you a bit of a buzz.
It takes a while to come and see that the law doesn’t have to be like that. I think that you learn that over time. Because the very first world that you see is that very privileged world of English law and it’s really in your face where the law comes from and who it’s serving. We’re still waiting for the first Indigenous High Court judge!
Trisha: Now there are a lot more Indigenous law students studying so you can sit and talk about issues.
Terri: I didn’t understand it when I was first there. But now, the area I work in – intellectual property law and property rights – we look at how those tools can be used to help Indigenous people’s rights. That’s how I’ve managed to bring my identity into the legal profession. Working in a developing area of the law, in a way has let me carve a niche in an area I’m passionate about. But you have to know the law to be able to use it in that way.
Terri: Yeah, it’s a big issue. I think there are a lot of people who feel the pressure to achieve a lot for Indigenous people but you can’t have that burden on you too much because people burn out that way. You’re not helping anyone if you’re burnt out and cynical. You have to find a balance.
Trisha: I feel like I have a responsibility to the Indigenous community. I’ve had this opportunity to study law when so many want to study law and can’t get in. There are so many people in the community who don’t have a voice. You know, like what about a poor Indigenous women sitting at home being beaten up by her husband? She doesn’t have a voice. What about kids that are stuck out in the desert somewhere suffering from all these diseases who don’t have an education? So there are all those people who need to be heard. And so if you get through law and each person does their bit to help, maybe it will make a difference to help those communities.
Terri: Yes, you’re right. For me, law is about empowering my people and it’s about empowering myself as well.
I think every day you get more confident. And people give you things. Like, you get to see other people working and you ask them about their choices in life. All the time it’s scary. But I think you just get used to the fear. You do things and then think, ‘oh well, I’ve done it now. I guess I’ll go and do this!’ And you get a little bit more game.
You also develop new skills. I never thought that I could talk in public when I was at law school and now I do public speaking all the time. It’s incredible how you change.
Terri: Whatever the area is that gives you that passion, go for it. There are aspects of being a lawyer that can be really mundane and boring. So you want to be able to remember why you’re there. Then, in my experience, everything else falls into place and it leads you.
Trisha: That’s what I’m finding at the moment. I went down to Canberra last year for interviews with the Indigenous cadetship program and I got a cadetship with the Department of Employment here in Sydney. So it’s opened another area for me – widening my options for the future, I guess.
Terri: Yeah, exactly. If you know that human rights and women’s rights are your passion, all those opportunities will come up. I also really believe in being guided by intuition and spirituality. Indigenous culture is very spiritual and I’m very guided by that, it’s been my upbringing.
Q: Do you think it’s important to try and keep your sense of self when you’re not working in Indigenous-related areas?
Terri: Yes, I think you’ve really got to keep that with you and keep yourself open. That’s why organisations like Ngalaya[5] are great because you can hang out with other Indigenous lawyers. But when you’re by yourself you’ve got to keep your grounding. And that’s when family are important – they keep you grounded. I’ve always had my mother and father and sister and brother and cousins to help me. And I have a lot of Indigenous friends that keep you remembering why you’re doing what you’re doing.
We would like to thank Terri and Trisha very much for giving us their valuable time and sharing their feelings and ideas.
[1] Terri Janke, ‘Our Culture, Our Future: Proposals for the Recognition and Protection of Indigenous Cultural and Intellectual Property’, (1997).
[2] The Aboriginal Students’ Centre is part of the Aboriginal Education Program at the University of NSW.
[3] The Indigenous Law Bulletin, formerly the Aboriginal Law Bulletin.
[4] Emeritus Professor Garth Nettheim teaches ‘Indigenous Peoples and the Law’ at the University of NSW.
[5] Ngalaya Aboriginal Corporation, ph 02 9693 2577.
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URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/IndigLawB/2004/34.html